Shit load of smoke

[mcglynn]

youve obviously never driven a well set up hdi then jimbo

They drive like a new car engine wise, with smooth hard torque delivery and will rev hard with the right mapping. Different league altogether, more modern VW etc have went CR Injection which says something!

[daniel909]

Getting pissed off with all the problems so thought uxd would be the best way. found a doner 405 already running Bosch pump and not long had a clutch also got as another 306 doner also just brought f*ck off big intercooler so should be alright when it all finished

[Jimbo]

No need to stick up for hdi's mate, its only my opinion
There very temperamental when pumps, sensors etc wear

I cant be doin with that, XUD runs on a few wires and I like the old school power delivery,

Nothin nothin nothin BOOOOOSSSTT

[daniel909]

The only thing I'm about piss off with I only just got my car mapped by Tb lol so might sell my ecu
Jimbo have you swap them over yet or is it still a hdi

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The only thing I'm about piss off with I only just got my car mapped by Tb lol so might sell my ecu
Jimbo have you swap them over yet or is it still a hdi

---

The only thing I'm about piss off with I only just got my car mapped by Tb lol so might sell my ecu
Jimbo have you swap them over yet or is it still a hdi

---

The only thing I'm about piss off with I only just got my car mapped by Tb lol so might sell my ecu
Jimbo have you swap them over yet or is it still a hdi

[mikey b]

How much did ya get the twin pass for

[Jimbo]

Im rebuilding my engine atm with.a gt1752s turbo, painting block doing head, seals/gaskets etc
Will be going in end of feb I reckon
Fairly easy job though

[Ruan]

youve obviously never driven a well set up hdi then jimbo

They drive like a new car engine wise, with smooth hard torque delivery and will rev hard with the right mapping. Different league altogether, more modern VW etc have went CR Injection which says something!

All I can say is you've not driven a well set up XUD...

There's a very good reason Peugeot kept with the Indirect design until 2007 in the DW8.

With a decent turbo and other slight changes they drive as well if not better than a HDi with similar levels of refinement, it's just that usually they've been pissed with.

[mcglynn]

True I havent drove an xud with a different turbo etc, but I also havent drove a hdi with a different turbo setup.

Can happily say I prefer the hdi

[Ruan]

The HDi is essentially a 25 year newer design, it's going to be a bit better in standard form, but a well setup XUD will be every bit as good without the rev hanging and poorer throttle response of a HDi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAk-Syx-MWM

And who says XUD9s can't be near enough smoke-less.

[mcglynn]

Fair point, but id still rather the hdi :p

[darrenjlobb]

Unless someone figures out the driver responce / weird way it runs maps, the edc15 hdi is NEVER going to drive well. Its just horrible.

Ive had cars mapped by pro steve, TB, JP, and some crappy generic maps, and yes some make power, some dont, but they ALL still drive like a TYPICAL HDI...lathergic, no life, just irritating as heck to thrash. theres no need for such chronic delay on the throttle pedal / rev down...It just feels like a grans car engine, even when they have 200hp....

Dont get me wrong, EVERYTHING about common rail is better, apart from this single issue, which just totally ruins everything thats right about it IMO.

A tuned XUD feels like a tuned fun sport car, and tuned hdi feels like a hdi for a bit more power...imo anyways.

[daniel909]

Unless someone figures out the driver responce / weird way it runs maps, the edc15 hdi is NEVER going to drive well. Its just horrible.

Ive had cars mapped by pro steve, TB, JP, and some crappy generic maps, and yes some make power, some dont, but they ALL still drive like a TYPICAL HDI...lathergic, no life, just irritating as heck to thrash. theres no need for such chronic delay on the throttle pedal / rev down...It just feels like a grans car engine, even when they have 200hp....

Dont get me wrong, EVERYTHING about common rail is better, apart from this single issue, which just totally ruins everything thats right about it IMO.

A tuned XUD feels like a tuned fun sport car, and tuned hdi feels like a hdi for a bit more power...imo anyways.

in other words you just hate hdi lol. would it be out to pick the crane up tonight as i am ready for it now was out till half 10 last night sorting it out lol

[rd070707]

Is there any way this throttle delay on the Hdi could be improved?

[mcglynn]

Ive had my pedal map changed by JP

I dont know if this is what you mean, if your looking at the clocks it seems as though the car is unresponsive, but the noise out the back is on par with how much and when I touch the throttle.

May be in the wrong tracks but it genuinely is more responsive.

Ive drove an xud and It was fun, but it was only a mild tune. Ive preferred the hdi for a few reasons.

The dsy I drive a quick and well setup xud I may change my opinion lol! Who knows

[Martin306]

Nope, cant improve hdi response cos it sux, sorry. Just have to get a XUD instead.

[mcglynn]

Ok I lose! Lol

[Toms306]

You wont ever 'fix' the throttle delay with a TPS, as theres always going to be a slight electrical delay and 'numbness', its not a mind reader lol, but it's never really bothered me tbh...turbo lag annoys me much more!!

You have to remember though, mech pumps and IDI was only binned on these in the late 90's due to emmsisons regulations, which CR/electronic injection will always win on....they weren't brought in for a better driving experience.

End of the day it's down to personal preference really, neither is actually 'better' all round.

[darrenjlobb]

You wont ever 'fix' the throttle delay with a TPS, as theres always going to be a slight electrical delay and 'numbness', its not a mind reader lol, but it's never really bothered me tbh...turbo lag annoys me much more!!

You have to remember though, mech pumps and IDI was only binned on these in the late 90's due to emmsisons regulations, which CR/electronic injection will always win on....they weren't brought in for a better driving experience.

End of the day it's down to personal preference really, neither is actually 'better' all round.

Not true at all...the ECU is EASILY fast enough to react INSTANTLY...and with DI / CR they should be MORE responsive than mech pumped engines...proper tuned diesels on proper management is instant..the speed / accuracy of CR ecu systems is insane...its purely in the software to make them drive "smooth" that causes this issue...but its crap!!!

[Toms306]

You wont ever 'fix' the throttle delay with a TPS, as theres always going to be a slight electrical delay and 'numbness', its not a mind reader lol, but it's never really bothered me tbh...turbo lag annoys me much more!!

You have to remember though, mech pumps and IDI was only binned on these in the late 90's due to emmsisons regulations, which CR/electronic injection will always win on....they weren't brought in for a better driving experience.

End of the day it's down to personal preference really, neither is actually 'better' all round.

Not true at all...the ECU is EASILY fast enough to react INSTANTLY...and with DI / CR they should be MORE responsive than mech pumped engines...proper tuned diesels on proper management is instant..the speed / accuracy of CR ecu systems is insane...its purely in the software to make them drive "smooth" that causes this issue...but its crap!!!

Oh fair enough then lol.

If that's the case though, why can't the software be altered to better the throttle response?

[mcglynn]

I would tell anyone with a laggy hdi to get the pedal maps and drivers wish maps altered accoedingly, if you feel they're not responsive.

I know with mine James only done this in one of my later maps, but I instantly said to him (he didnt tell me as it was a bit of a trial to see if I noticed) that it was a lot sharper in pedal to engine response.

I know in standard form in neutral I would have to 'PUSH' the pedal to get a response, now if i just blip it I get an instant blip in the revs.

Sometimes this is misjudged as the dials are slower to react than the engine, but if like me you open the door or window, and 'blip' the throttle it is very very responsive.

[Toms306]

I would tell anyone with a laggy hdi to get the pedal maps and drivers wish maps altered accoedingly, if you feel they're not responsive.

I know with mine James only done this in one of my later maps, but I instantly said to him (he didnt tell me as it was a bit of a trial to see if I noticed) that it was a lot sharper in pedal to engine response.

I know in standard form in neutral I would have to 'PUSH' the pedal to get a response, now if i just blip it I get an instant blip in the revs.

Sometimes this is misjudged as the dials are slower to react than the engine, but if like me you open the door or window, and 'blip' the throttle it is very very responsive.

You make it sound like an LFA lol.... Needs a digital dash to keep up!

[Ruan]

Commonrail can be even quicker to respond than XUDs if the map is adjusted for it... Petrols are adequately responsive - remember they require the manifold to fill with air, it go past the valves, takes quire a few strokes for that to happen...

Commonrail on the other hand polls the tps at say 1kHz, that's one THOUSAND times a second, the ECU runs at 25MHz and has very efficient code... That means the engine at 6000rpm is requiring 100 injection events per second, across all cylinders... So yeah, the pedal even at 1kHz is being polled for data 10x faster than the fastest opportunity to change the injection quantity... And that's a very, very simple equation which is near enough pointless other than to show the difference between how fast the ECU is working vs how fast the engine is working...

But yeah, the ECU can quite easily change injection quantity on a per stroke basis... There's nothing stopping the ecu responding near instantaneously... Just the hysteresis on the map...

[darrenjlobb]

I didnt ask JP specifically so maybe he didnt touch these settings. Although IMO these are some of the most important things to change!

[Toms306]

Ah that's interesting Ruan, didn't realise it was so quick tbh, puts it into perspective though!

[mcglynn]

I think he has only started doing it, its a huge learning curve I suppose. Only a month ago he wouldnt map a car other than his friends.

Mine is very quick to respond with the change now, anyone who has drove it has commented to say so