Bosch pump rebuild

[blinkyeatu]

ahhh right yea sorry didnt mean it only ran whilst cranking but if cranked it for say 10s it then started and i carried on for another 10 then let go and then it ran. if i let go straight after it fires up it cuts out. i also had the exact same set up lines pipes and ign live etc running a couple of weeks ago without any problems apart from v lumpy idle hunting revs and pumping smoke. pretty sure now the faults not with the solenoid

[darrenjlobb]

Vane pump, start it up, pull return hose off pump, im willing to guess there wont be any / much fuel flow...

[blinkyeatu]

Vane pump, start it up, pull return hose off pump, im willing to guess there wont be any / much fuel flow...

Ohhhh for bleming bladdy blinking sake I'll have a go tomorrow. Is that the return to the tank?
If it is the vane pump is it just That it seized up in the week it was left dry? 
when it comes to it what shall I do just get some 1200 on it and make sure it'll all moves freely, I saw someone somewhere saying they were greasing the parts as they put them back in but they didn't specify what they used... Thoughts? or shall just fill the bugger up with diesel as soon as it's closed up(abit messier).
Cheers for the help will post result soon

[bashbarnard]

If its vane pump before you take it apart gravity feed the pump direct you may find it will un seize itself.

[blinkyeatu]

Have you actually checked the timing pins go in? Looks like you've timed the pump up wrong.

 yea i locked the flywheel, cam and both points on the fuel pump

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If its vane pump before you take it apart gravity feed the pump direct you may find it will un seize itself.

oooooh really that would be nice, ill check the output like darren said and then what just have it funnelled in from a raised point? out of curiosity hows that likey to free it up surely its under the same pressure from the fuel filter?
cheers

[darrenjlobb]

Check return flow, can try pumping like mad.... If it does turn out to be bad when you strip it make sure vane pump hasnt picked up on the sides, if it has bronze bushing will be worn / bad and pump will keep picking up...failing that could just be stuck from being dry.

[blinkyeatu]

There did seem to be a fair bit of fuel coming out but I also ran my batter dead again so just decided to whip the pump off.
Nothing seemed to be amiss I'll go back through the guide.
The vanes did move ish there's no rust or anything I assume they would push out when it's spining at speed.
So what's the wear I should be looking for??

[306pc]

I just ordered this kit. Sure the serial number is the same. 3quid. Worth a shot. What we thinking boys....

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vie...26&alt=web

[bashbarnard]

That's the one.

[blinkyeatu]

That's the one I got the first time they sent me the wrong one so do check. I don't think it's the exact ones for our pumps Like there's a huge o ring bigger than the one on the head of the pump

[blinkyeatu]

after i stripped it down again, cleaned up the vanes filled it with diesel, put it back on my car started it and it ran fine wahoooo
i then proceeded to connect everything up, went to work (not in my car) when i came home and tried to start it it coughed alittle bit but thenn nothing.
im not sure whether ive ran the battery to low again but the primer now looses all pressure pretty quick but still cant see any fuel leaking and cant hear any air leaks

[blinkyeatu]

Had another look today this time though I disconnected the fuel return and blocked the pump, primed it and the primer stayed hard. Now I understand the return is meant to allow fuel to flow through (although I guess the problem is I don't understand when, why or how yet ) but if nothing else it shows there's no other air or fuel leak

[Paul_13]

What size hole is on the return banjo? Should be pin size

[blinkyeatu]

I've not actually disturbed the return banjo all I did was diconnect the hose from the pump and for some reason I also disconnected it from the green return line that was the only different thing I did since it last started but I've check both the jubilees are tight

[andyyy]

Have you removed the plunger and spring from the stop solenoid yet to rule that out ? Just because it started once doesn't mean its not a sticky solenoid. 

As Paul says it would be worth checking you got the banjo bolts the right way round when you reassembled. This could be the reason why the primer won't pump up hard. 

The return line allows extra fuel to return the tank, it also allows the pump to be bled it would be nearly impossible to bleed the pump without it. You shouldn't run the car with it blocked it will cause you major issues. However by blocking it and pumping the primer you have proved that the low pressure side of the pump isn't leaking. 

Also try letting the glow plugs get extra hot encase there's an issue with them , ignition on and off 3 times before you start it.

[Paul_13]

Just bare in mind if you remove the solenoid inners you'll have to stall the engine to turn it off or cut the fuel

[blinkyeatu]

I've not tried the solenoid yet but last time I stripped the punp I did pop it of and free it all u. I can here it clicking also today I cracked the union and there is fuel but just at a very low pressure.

I didn't remove the return banjo and both the line are connected the right way round.
DONT WORRY I didn't try and run the car with it blocked just squeezed the primer .
The but I'm struggling to understand is how the fuel returns regulated is there a one way valve somewhere that's allows the fuel through at a certain pressure that might of broken??

I didn't know about the glow plug thing that's good trick to know

I read a Cummings thread and he had the EXACT same thing going on. In the end he took the pump apart again and the fulcrum to control collar bit had snapped off but I still don't why the return would do what it's doing.... But I've had enough of stripping it down also that Bliming 10mm Cambelt coverr bolt.

Also spoke to a local old diesel guy...... What a mistake..... 35min of him telling me I can't do it because of X&X reasons and that the pumps won't be the same because it's of a 405 DT, he couldn't comprehend that I could time the woodruff keys up or undo the triangle bolts. JESUS CHRIST!! He did them tell me it's ducked he has no idea and it would cost £200+ to fix

[andyyy]

Just bare in mind if you remove the solenoid inners you'll have to stall the engine to turn it off or cut the fuel

Or just use the stop lever on the front of the pump.

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I've not tried the solenoid yet but last time I stripped the punp I did pop it of and free it all u. I can here it clicking also today I cracked the union and there is fuel but just at a very low pressure.

I didn't remove the return banjo and both the line are connected the right way round.
DONT WORRY I didn't try and run the car with it blocked just  squeezed the primer .
The but I'm struggling to understand is how the fuel returns regulated is there a  one way valve somewhere that's allows the fuel through at a certain pressure that might of broken??

I didn't know about  the glow plug thing that's good trick to know

I read a Cummings thread and he had the EXACT same thing going on. In the end  he took the pump apart again and the fulcrum to control collar bit had snapped off but I still don't why the return would do what it's doing.... But I've had enough of stripping it down also that Bliming 10mm Cambelt coverr bolt.

Also spoke to a local old diesel guy...... What a mistake..... 35min of him telling me I can't do it because of X&X reasons and that the pumps won't be the same because it's of a 405 DT, he couldn't comprehend that I could time the woodruff keys up or undo the triangle bolts. JESUS CHRIST!! He did them tell me it's ducked he has no idea and it would cost £200+ to fix

By my understanding the return is regulated by the banjo bolt which on the return line has a much smaller hole (which causes a restriction that in turn regulates it) checking it wouldn't take long bbut you sound sure its the right way round. There is a non return valve on the fuel inlet not that it works very well. 

Personally I'd try the solenoid it takes like 5 min and then its another thing ruled out.

[blinkyeatu]

Ok started it the other day and there is fuel at the injectors just with very little pressure, which makes me think it's not the solenoid but maybe the vane pump (which I don't really get cause it was filled with diesel straight away, I paid extra attention to them when rebuilding it AGAIN and it ran fine when I first started it)
But then I don't get why the fuels just flowing through the return.

I took the head of to see if the fulcrum leaver had snapped as someone had the exact same scenario and that was the cause. But fine was all fine and moving.

So I've got a couple of vague hypothesis floating around (could there maybe be and air leak on the return line) but as much as I HATE IT I think it's time to wave the tactical white flag ?

So if there's anyone fancy a them selves as abit of a pump builder and wants to earn a few quid (it doesn't need reselling just building and would please inform me where I went wrong that would be absolutely FANTASTIC otherwise if anyone's got one to sell that could also work.
Cheers for all the help guys

[bashbarnard]

It sounds like vane pump not coming out of return. Just saying

[blinkyeatu]

howd you mean not coming out of return?

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as in the actual vanes arnt retracting?
whilst im very reluctant to rebuild again if im taking it off and there was a fairly obvious culprit (which now you say it like that i feel there might be) i might

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oooooh maybe something i should mention i thought it was normal but the shaft moves in and out a little bit theres no side to side play though

[bashbarnard]

Lol read that as fuel not coming from return. Fail. There is very little to go wrong as such in these pumps. Just pull to bits and go through the lot with a fine tooth come and clean it all. I always oil my internals when i build my pumps as i assemble with normal engine oil. Whatever crap i have thats new lying about and am yet to have an issue. The pump im running atm was even a non runner when i got it. Caked with horrid dried up veg lol.

[blinkyeatu]

ahhh no worries man, youve renewed my faith anyway so i know what im doing tomorrow. but encase all else fails you still got that other pump you had?

[vincent1]

did you check the banjo bolt holes was in the right position? i think the smaller hole one is the return the larger is the feed one

[bashbarnard]

The smaller whole one should say out on it. No i dont have a spare pump anymore. Salvaged the best bits for mine. The other spare i had went to someone else as well. Have plenty of bits though.

[blinkyeatu]

Yea definitely the right way round
And no worrys bash
I'll try again and Will report back tomorrow

[blinkyeatu]

REBUILT IT AGAIN! Nothing looked out of place when I stripped it and everything went back fine.
Just connected up the fuel lines (didn't run it will try tomorrow) but it's not looking great as the EXACT same things happening;
Prime, goes firm, 10-15s, bulb looses pressure,
All just comes out of the return.

Haven't touched the banjo, the Stop solenoids fine (plus primer always used to maintain pressure with engine off)
I don't feel it's a pump problem anymore (will gravity feed it tomorrow, what's the best way to set it up?)
But what could cause the promblem in the lines? Surely if the bulb valve was shot it wouldn't build up pressure at'll.
Could it be air getting in? Fuel doesn't seem to be getting out, There's no damp spots on the lines and only removed the rubber return hose at both ends but tightened them up

[blinkyeatu]

Any ideas? Im gunna take my pump to the diesel guy see if he'll bench test it,
Then probably see if my Lucas pump is still alive

[andyyy]

Have you got fuel to the pump ?

I normally squeeze the primer until fuel comes out the line, then when it does hold the primer in and push the fuel line onto the pump , then squeeze a few times to fill the pump before bleeding the injector lines.

If so , is it the throttle shaft or Max fuel screw?

[Paul Baldwin]

If you feel it's not the pump have you got a clear pipe going to the pump so you can see any air? Have you tried bypassing the filter housing to see if that works? My mums 306 filter housing failed once and it took me most of the day to find the fault as it wasn't leaking any fuel at all. It drove 30 miles fine the one day and the next day refused to run but would start and then die. The filter housing top had failed somehow and I just couldn't seal it. A new one cured it and its never missed a beat since.