Gaz, KWs or Billy B8s?!?! arrrrgh!

[Pompey306mark]

Looks like 2 1/4inch spring size. That means those cups for the top need to be that size too Ed.

[Pompey306mark]

I think ed will want to go lower than the 30mm on those springs.

[Dum-Dum]

Atterz you say about going very low changing the geometry but with Ed talking about the eccentric top mounts i think this was something he was planning on doing anyway.


Much as I like standard 306 handling having fully adjustable coil overs so you can alter the balance front to rear to cure over/under steer and playing with settings till YOU find a setting that YOU are most happy with rather than what someone else thinks is best.

Oh and being dropped low also massively helps cure the LO-OS and make it more controllable when it does happen

[Atterz]

With due respect camber is not the only aspect changed when lowering a car, you change the roll centre, induce bumpsteer etc etc. From what i gather he wants a car thats not too harsh for road use and that handles extremely well. Peugeot must have spent hundreds of thousands developing the vehicles and excessive lowering does change the 306s characteristics quite a bit!

Now im not anti coilover, i run them so it would be massively hypocrytical to say they arent the way to go. Mine handles well but there is issues that i havent ironed out and arent happy with. I think maybe B8s/Eibachs would have been the way to go at first until i was a better driver in order to make the desicions needed to spec the coilover setup i wanted. Seems its not just a case of plug and play so to speak.

Either or really and its Eds car, im not sure what more i can say. Both can work well but the coilovers will take a bit more tweaking.

[Rippthrough]

Oh and being dropped low also massively helps cure the LO-OS and make it more controllable when it does happen

Personally I find it's the other way around, helps so long as it's not a bumpy road (in which case it's terrible), but makes it snappy and unpredictable.

Unless you're running the rear lower than the front, but that just sucks ass anyway

[Dum-Dum]

Oh yeah excessive lowering does change the characteristics of the 306 and on stupidly low cars you do notice bump steer (although thankfully this is lessened by stiff suspension meaning less travel over bumps)

And because most suspension components travel through an arc as they move if the car is massively lower then stuff like your ball joint and TCA can be further away or closer to the car.

Lowering to any height dynamically changes all suspension and steering angles and thus the tyres contact patch and the more adjustability you have (like eccentric top mounts) the more you can set the car to give the best contact patch at the height you choose.


I think ill sum up my argument by saying I guess B8s and eibachs are about the same price as GAZs and ETMs (£450 on ebay). How would you feel if you fitted the B8/eibach combo and didnt like it for whatever reason and decided to go for the fully adjustable coilovers and lost out on that £450 that could go a long way to tweaking your coilies or paying a motorsport specialist to set up all your shiny suspension bits.

[Dum-Dum]

Oh and being dropped low also massively helps cure the LO-OS and make it more controllable when it does happen

Personally I find it's the other way around, helps so long as it's not a bumpy road (in which case it's terrible), but makes it snappy and unpredictable.

Unless you're running the rear lower than the front, but that just sucks ass anyway

OK let me quantify the control/predictability comment;

Theres a roundabout by me, massive thing, its down hill, off camber and always slippy from the amount of lorries that go round dripping diesel.

In a standard 306 I could go round that 20 times LO-OS ing every time but every time it would go at a different speed, a different amount of lift and then take a different amount of throttle and oopylocky to control it, sometimes it would snap back, sometimes it would be nice and sometimes it would try and spin me the other way.

Going round it in a low 306 (My black HDi) Every time it would go in the ame place at the same sort of speed, the back would go to the same sort of angle and it would need the same amount of steering to control it and it was easier to hold and never tried to then spin the opposite way although when it does come back it comes back faster because the whole incident is more expected it feels more controllable and predictable.

[Pompey306mark]

Ed call tomrrow before 9pm mate. My phone meeting did not happen this evening.

Really would love to get this job she is offering.

Back on track;

I have gaz coilovers, 325lbs springs, shiny top mounts which give 1-2 degrees of camber. Ripp drop links, gti arb and meyle HD lower arms, with the added help of lower and upper strut braces. I know on most corners from here to Kris's how much I need to turn the wheel to safely and quickly go around a corner and at what speeds.

Everytime I have left Kris's, after fitting some cool parts, the handling has improved for the better, yes its hard and if I had to drive all over the country it would drive me mad. But at the moment its just a daily driver, and its fun and enjoyable to drive both on long journeys and the short blasts to my ex work.

If ed wants a good handling car that he can live with day to day, copy what I have done with maybe some lighter springs.

[Foxy-jim]

Does anyone use polybush mounts on the front?

[Pompey306mark]

Mine are uprated ones. £150 for a sets of lower arms with heavy duty bushes.

[Foxy-jim]

Wow that's a lot. I need to get spending!

[Rippthrough]

In a standard 306 I could go round that 20 times LO-OS ing every time but every time it would go at a different speed, a different amount of lift and then take a different amount of throttle and oopylocky to control it, sometimes it would snap back, sometimes it would be nice and sometimes it would try and spin me the other way.

Going round it in a low 306 (My black HDi) Every time it would go in the ame place at the same sort of speed, the back would go to the same sort of angle and it would need the same amount of steering to control it and it was easier to hold and never tried to then spin the opposite way although when it does come back it comes back faster because the whole incident is more expected it feels more controllable and predictable.

Just sounds like the dampers were tired on the standard one tbh!

[lewisdmz]

a quick post because i'm at work just to provide an opinion,

I have b6's with standard Peugeot springs and have found the set up very impressive and progressive. Driving around town and at slow speeds you wouldn't really know the suspension is uprated and apart from really bad pot-holes which do feel a bit harsh the ride is pretty comfortable. The set up really comes alive when you start to push on and it seems the more you push it the better it gets in terms of responsiveness and 'flat-cornering-ness'.

The only thing I would be concerned bout with coilovers is the harshness, baring in mind the condition of the majority of roads in the UK. I don't know much about them, is it possible to set them soft enough to perform well on bumpy roads or will they skip all over the place?

[Ruan]

As Atterz has said, unless you want massive sacrifices of ride quality, then Billies are the way to go... Unless you're spending in excess of a grand a corner, just on suspension struts, you really aren't going to get anything close to a decent ride quality...

However, the coilovers will be good in regards to adjustability, but you are going to struggle with setting them up to begin with, what Atterz said with regards to then KNOWING what a good car handles like is perfectly true...

But it's your decision.

Some coilies with sort of 250-260lb springs would do you good, GHAs or whatever... They will do you well, but you really have to weigh up how much you're going on track, as I'd say the Billies will be 80% as good, with none of the drawbacks of trying to set them up... Whereas you could easily lose that 20% of how much better the Coilovers are going to be in slightly poor setup..

Having been in a few cars with "decent" coilovers, they never seem to ride properly... The fast rebound over little bumps and fluctuations in the road are never soaked up, and if you have the damping set anything close to correct, they will break your back on anything fast, but only just give you the damping you need throughout the corners. Whereas the Billies + Springs will be very close to stock, but improve the driving a massive amount. Peugeot weren't thick when they set up the GTi6 from the factory, they are one of the better front drive cars going, just slapping on coilovers isn't instantly going to transform the handling without sacrificing in other areas massively - you've got to remember that you're on road for 80% of the time... Is it really worth breaking your back for that 20% of the time you'll be on track...

IMO anyway.

[Ed Doe]

Right.

Thanks for all the replies guys and girls.

As much as it appears the 'sensible option' would be to get b8s and eibachs.....


Mazz my gf put it brilliantly this evening (after I'd spent half an hour explaining the difference between coilovers and spring & dampers, damping, rebound, spring rates & what I wanted my car to handle like - oh yeah did I mention she has the patience of a saint?!)

So she turns to me and says "Well Ed at the end of the day you're a fiddler; you wont be happy unless your fiddling with something to try to make it better; I think you should get the coilovers." I don't think she was listening to the bit where I mentioned it would break her back on potholed roads....

Either way, I think I'm sold... untill tomorrow morning when I'll go through the same though process again but come down on the other side in favour of b8s...


So on the basis I stick with this decision, I'm now talking spring rates and lenghts.

Should I get helper springs?
What rates should I get? (Phil, you said 220-270; do you know what length springs I should get? I'm mega-paranoid they'll go coilbound.... :S )

Answers on a postcard

Thanks again everyone

[Foxy-jim]

Yes to helpers, because it stops the springs becoming unseated!

[Curt]

Ed, stop being a fanny. Just buy some coilovers, MTFU and bosh them on


(I'm sure Mazz was intrigued by your [carnerd] oooooow [/carnerd] suspension conversation )

[Connor]

You only need helpers if you're going silly low, mine dont have helpers and will never need helpers

[Foxy-jim]

Mine is silly low and going lower so I need helpers!

[Ed Doe]

Curt!! She loves a bit of nerd every so often


So I'm looking to go 40-50mm, definitely no more. Will I need helper springs for that height? And is it possible for me to just raise the ride-height before MOT and therefore get away without helpers at all? They're not the cheapest things; I could do without spending on em if possible...

[Foxy-jim]

Ye of course you can raise it up. Why don't you just put some little 2" ones on?

[Pompey306mark]

There are helper springs on eBay for around £30 and they from from a gaz seller.

50mm is the same as me so yes you will need them if u get the same length springs as me. Last two years we have raised my cars ride height so it would pass the mot for the springs not getting unseated.

I will measure my springs soon and let you know.

[Dum-Dum]

Ed dont worry about springs, just take the 325lb springs they come with and see how you like them. gazs dont come with helpers cos they dont need them

[Ed Doe]

Ed dont worry about springs, just take the 325lb springs they come with and see how you like them. gazs dont come with helpers cos they dont need them

Dum, 325s are too stiff for the front and will cause understeer and an excessively hard ride, I'm not going for them!
And I need to get a 100% answer on the helpers; Mark said they do need them; the only reason his passed mot was because the tester was friendly apparently. I don't want to take that chance.

[Connor]

I wound mine down as far as it would go without unseatting the spring and I would say that was around a 50mm drop

[Atterz]

Mine got away with unseating on the MOT, didnt even mention it to me!

[Foxy-jim]

My garage gets funny with mine now!

[Atterz]

Wankers!

[Atterz]

Above post directed at the garage not Jim

[Foxy-jim]

Haha. No worries! I thought the same. He's normally a really nice bloke!