Project engine number 3

[Pompey306mark]

So after talking last night at Ace Cafe, its time to start on my third engine.

The head gasket in my current engine seems to be having issues. Coolant is pressurizing, does not over heat unless I am going some. But even then it cools right down once you let of.

So instead of just changing the gasket, I think I will just swap then engine to something that might stand up to more abuse.

Purpose of this thread is to mainly get ideas and info on what is needed. This all revolves around me finding a job too.

So from reading in the past from different threads, I have taken these basic facts.

1. DHX engine seems to be the strongest of the engine blocks to pick from. But does that mean the rods in this engine are stronger than hdi rods???

2. Hdi rods: when fitting into an XUD block need to go in the block in a certain way. Either they go in the same way the old XUD rods came out or they go in the way they would in a HDI engine. I beleive the correct way is the second way otherwise its byebye engine. Can someone please clarify.

3. Pistons: cant use the hdi ones so will have to use either the ones coming off the old engine or get another set from somewhere. I think I remember reading the the DHY block pistons are coated with something, making them more durable, is this correct?

4. Clutch: will most likely end up using the CG clutch that JP and others have used.
Max how is it on your 205, you were going to let me know what its like after bedding in.

5. Turbos: My T25 is a good turbo it pulls well, flows plenty of air and comes on early enough to make it fun to drive. But I think with the engine coming out and the swapping over of all my other parts of the engine, I might as well upgrade the turbo.

6. Head bolts: Well since the engine I am running at the moment is only a year old, and we used a victor reinz head gasket the last time, and a new reconditioned head it was last swapped, I can only think we have lifted the head or something along those lines. So question has anyone actually got around to getting someone to make uprated bolts?

So final thoughts, what have I missed firstly. I am sure there are a few things that others have found out in the past or have thought about and not put down on paper so to speak.
In an ideally world forged internals would be good, but at the moment I can't go down that route so something a little bit more uprated will do. If it can get to 200bhp and be safe I would be happy.

Thoughts and answers would be great.

[Ed Doe]

I'm well out of touch with XUD tuning now, but IIRC there are very few who've made 200hp and the engine lasted any length of time...
The only person I can think of who engine is still running is JP...

What turbo will you be running?
You probably wont make the hp figures without some pump mods either surely?

[Pompey306mark]

My pump is already modified in some way, JP managed 200 bhp with a 9mm pump with a few minor tunes from what I remember. He was running a dhx engine, but was not always running it at full flow, ie boost.

Turbo well I was thinking of GT2556, but open to other ideas. I would like to move the turbo to the side of the engine, but need to think over this one.

[Kwik]

dhx for sure try and get a twin scroll lorry turbo and gearbox mount and relocate battery to boot. twin scroll make sure that each entry port is matched for firing order efficiency.

there are uprated bolts but you need to use washers i'll have a look see if i can get some made and if they will be a worthwhile price.

is there any reason why can't use HDi ones?

[padge]

my old 306 engine is still going, dhx at like 35+psi on a tdo4, and its been like that for about 6 months.

[Ruan]

I'll reply properly later when I'm not stuck in a 5 mile queue... With regards to head studs, basically its a bit of a.nightmare, ARP ones do fit, but need extended washers, you cannot use any old material, they need to be high tensile and heat treated or you'll crush them.... To have some made, they must be rolled threads which poses problems as M12x1.25 isn't the most common thread to have a die of, so most fastner places will say they'll cost a fortune... Though I seriously doubt a t25 will have lifted the head, its extreme torque that does it and knowing how t25s are, they'll ne er make the low down torque of a VNT or a modern GT series...

[darrenjlobb]

So after talking last night at Ace Cafe, its time to start on my third engine.

The head gasket in my current engine seems to be having issues. Coolant is pressurizing, does not over heat unless I am going some. But even then it cools right down once you let of.

So instead of just changing the gasket, I think I will just swap then engine to something that might stand up to more abuse.

Purpose of this thread is to mainly get ideas and info on what is needed. This all revolves around me finding a job too.

So from reading in the past from different threads, I have taken these basic facts.

1. DHX engine seems to be the strongest of the engine blocks to pick from. But does that mean the rods in this engine are stronger than hdi rods???

ALL the blocks are exactly the same quite frankly, its just a load of horsepoo whatever anyone tells you, dhy's go wrong 80% of the time, because 80% of 306's have DHY's in them, id get a DHY for the better head / coated pistons... Rods are all the same, whats your budget, sure its not time to just spunk 750 and forge it for peace of mind?

2. Hdi rods: when fitting into an XUD block need to go in the block in a certain way. Either they go in the same way the old XUD rods came out or they go in the way they would in a HDI engine. I beleive the correct way is the second way otherwise its byebye engine. Can someone please clarify.

Same way as they were in the donor motor

3. Pistons: cant use the hdi ones so will have to use either the ones coming off the old engine or get another set from somewhere. I think I remember reading the the DHY block pistons are coated with something, making them more durable, is this correct?

Yes, use the DHY ones, any will do provided there not scored, re ring it / hone the block out also.

4. Clutch: will most likely end up using the CG clutch that JP and others have used.
Max how is it on your 205, you were going to let me know what its like after bedding in.

Ive had one of the CG clutchs on my car for last year or so, for what you pay, you cant really go wrong, holds a tonne of torque, and drives fine, bit jerky but who cares really....only issue is they will die with abuse, after removing mine half the clutch is burnt onto the flywheel / pressure plate, but that said, I totally raped the clutch, so its hardly suprising, id say go for it tbh...

5. Turbos: My T25 is a good turbo it pulls well, flows plenty of air and comes on early enough to make it fun to drive. But I think with the engine coming out and the swapping over of all my other parts of the engine, I might as well upgrade the turbo.

Deffo dont put the T25 back on, such a old lathergic blower compared to what you could be using, Either something GT series, or even a vnt, just nothing really old like a t series.

6. Head bolts: Well since the engine I am running at the moment is only a year old, and we used a victor reinz head gasket the last time, and a new reconditioned head it was last swapped, I can only think we have lifted the head or something along those lines. So question has anyone actually got around to getting someone to make uprated bolts?

Buy ARP ones imo, I did, and havent had a single issue, ever, with a headgasket / head lighting or anything, from day one, and ive been ramming 60 psi in top end, and using a vnt bottom end, either of which, no problems...for what they cost, its only about 80-100 quid more than it will end up costing you farcing around trying to get something made up, and will most likely be a fair bit stronger to...

So final thoughts, what have I missed firstly. I am sure there are a few things that others have found out in the past or have thought about and not put down on paper so to speak.
In an ideally world forged internals would be good, but at the moment I can't go down that route so something a little bit more uprated will do. If it can get to 200bhp and be safe I would be happy.

Thoughts and answers would be great.

[Pompey306mark]

£750? Where is that from? Is that the total cost ie inc VAT.

Is that a forged hdi or XUD rod?

Also did you go direct to get the ARP head bolts.

So info sorted.
Piece of mind for £750.
Cost of rings and re honing.
CG clutch £200 odd.
New gaskets and stuff like that.
Find a turbo and mounting issues.

[darrenjlobb]

Well thats what I paid for mine iirc, and thats based on hdi ones, its either that, or hdi rod it and see how long it lasts if it pops spend the money, depends how you roll really, but busting rods gets boring after a while.

[Kwik]

IMO my DHX is league's ahead of the DHY and as it was a later engine wouldn't it have the coating on pistons and an even better head design?

[strictly_perv]

Regards to the clutch, pretty much as Darren said, takes the abuse well when warmed. I don't usually launch my car but have done a couple of second gear one's and it loves it!

Do keep updates on rods and bolts ect, I'm doing a pretty much identical build so if you have to get things custom made it could be cheaper bulk/group buying.

[Ben]

IMO my DHX is league's ahead of the DHY and as it was a later engine wouldn't it have the coating on pistons and an even better head design?

Pretty sure dhy's were the later engine, or is that what you meant may not have understood?

---

Regards to the clutch, pretty much as Darren said, takes the abuse well when warmed. I don't usually launch my car but have done a couple of second gear one's and it loves it!

Do keep updates on rods and bolts ect, I'm doing a pretty much identical build so if you have to get things custom made it could be cheaper bulk/group buying.

Quite a few people interested in forged rods in mattys project thread..

[Kwik]

Only the 406, 806 and xantia got dhx's afaik and mine came out of an x reg 406. So from that I'd say dhx's are later engines but I may well be wrong

[ash240970]

I thought the DHY (ph2) engine was well known for being a rod thrower due to the fact that someone at Peugeot cocked up and started putting NA rods in the TD engines - think there were about 3000 built before the error was discovered though I did hear that most of these were shipped to Malta.
Comments based on people's experience with the DHY engine still point to this engine having weaker rods though.

[Pompey306mark]

So if I get forged rods do I need to get HDi bearings?

[Tom]

So if I get forged rods do I need to get HDi bearings?

I'd say yes if your forged rods are HDi ones

[strictly_perv]

Just go for forged XUD rods, be mucho easier.

[Pompey306mark]

Aren't the hdi ones thicker though?

Would it not be best to get the strongest rods made stronger.

[strictly_perv]

They aren't made the same thickness as standard.

[ash23]

my forged ones was used from xud just beefed up and i just used uprated brarings that the boosted 6 boys run.

[Pompey306mark]

Where did you get yours from?

[Pompey306mark]

Right just looking at costings.

Rods: £750
Lynx bearings: ???
GT2560 turbo or something like that £200+
Clutch: £200 maybe slightly more I think.

Spare engine with dhy pistons.
Getting my re con head skimmed and tested.
Mounting kit for the turbo or battery mounting and manifold.

Then all the other stuff: oils, belts, pumps

Plus anything I have forgetten.