Turbo finally on its way out?

[Toms306]

Back in the day people were scared of anything other than standard turbos!

I had a 3210 as my first phone in 2003....it still works, the 2 I've had in between that and my current one are both completely dead!

Though, sticking with an old XUD over a HDi is basically contradicting your argument. Direct common rail and electronic injection with a VNT turbo is awesome, and beats an equivalent XUD any day...so why do you guys still stick with the 3310 engine and try to fit a smartphone turbo to it?

[Piggy]

Coz tiz runs on veggy oil and i dont need to be a nerd with the maps

[bashbarnard]

Coz tiz runs on veggy oil and i dont need to be a nerd with the maps

This. Veg FTMFW

[Toms306]

But if you're learning the Arduino stuff, surely you could learn to map, at least the basics and then have it finally tweaked by a pro maybe.

The difference in fuel cost probably wouldn't end up much different with a much more efficient engine on regular diesel. Though I do agree veg will still be cheaper, just not sure there'd be a huge amount in it...


Fit a light DV6 with a bigger VNT in a 306 without the fuel heavy shite they have to put in newer cars and it'd be awesome imo....power, mpg and much less weight upfront than a 2.1 XUD to help the handling as well... I know it won't happen, but that'd interest me more than 'another XUD with a bigger turbo' projects.

[Piggy]

Well do it then biatch!

Veg at 50p a litre and my 2.1 doing 60mpg will do me just fine!

[bashbarnard]

There are always gonna be arguments for and against these things. I love love the xud but also like the hdis. Id have a hdi if I could run it on veg tbf. But I cant and ive just spent ages building mine.
Im sure piggy could learn mapping its within the capability of a fair few of us on here I would say. But theres something satisfying about xud tuning imo.

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As for the original posts there are a lot better turbos out there than td04 now. Even some non vnts are better. If im honest I cba with the vnt side of things either. Not that I cant do it. Im just lazy

[Paul_13]

I haven't read all the replies here but if you're upgrading the turbo. Stick hdi rods in for christ sake

[doogle-d turbo]

I have thought about up rating internals

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Out of interest how long do people run 'big blowers' without stronger rods etc before the block blows up? Seen a fair few spit rods now.

[bashbarnard]

Some last forever some last first run out. Its luck of draw

[doogle-d turbo]

And how hard it's driven! I very rarely rev past standard govner red line.
I just can't afford to throw rods/blow heads.

[Paul_13]

Mine blew after a year at 30psi on a T2 turbo

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My rod threw at 2k half throttle

[Toms306]

Well do it then biatch!

Veg at 50p a litre and my 2.1 doing 60mpg will do me just fine!

But I don't want a 306 project now.

Was just intrigued why people were realising that newer tech is the way to go with turbo's but don't want to try the newer tech with the fuel system and direct injection.

It seems it's only veg that's keeping people on the XUD's...maybe when global warming and a crap harvest forces the veg price up it'll change.

There are always gonna be arguments for and against these things. I love love the xud but also like the hdis. Id have a hdi if I could run it on veg tbf. But I cant and ive just spent ages building mine.
Im sure piggy could learn mapping its within the capability of a fair few of us on here I would say. But theres something satisfying about xud tuning imo.

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As for the original posts there are a lot better turbos out there than td04 now. Even some non vnts are better. If im honest I cba with the vnt side of things either. Not that I cant do it. Im just lazy

Very true, there is no right answer, people go with what they prefer, what their budget covers and what they feel capable of.

It just seems that people are almost scared to try the newer tech as mapping obviously isn't easy....but there would be massive gains from it.

TD04s were the best thing ever when I first joined the forums...now everyone realises they're just laggy old crap lol.

[doogle-d turbo]

I've never ran veg in the xud (I'm a chef so smell of chip fat EVERYDAY) couldn't let the car stink too however cheap it is.

I also now own a hdi and given it's still stock I would never choose them over the xud. Don't know why just prefer driving it. Although it's nice to get in the hdi and it not rattle like a bitch and sound like a tractor....but maybe that's why I love it. Feels like yr actually driving if u get me. Like going from manual to automatic.

[maxlee]

i run old stuff because if it dosen't start in the morning its only a few things new stuff it could be one of 30+

if you drop a 3310 it still works if you drop a new phone it shits its self

[doogle-d turbo]

Being my first big turbo and my requirements ie something with slightly more umpfff than a standard turbo that gives more throughout the rev range I think a less 'tech' turbo would be the best option. Also given my experience and the fact the xud is still my daily I think gt20 or similar would be the best choice. I'm not overly keen on the td04 but appreciate what people have done with them to get where we are now.

If I had the money/time/experience I would be experimenting with different turbos every month in both the xud and the hdi but hey ho.

[doogle-d turbo]

After cleaning up the block on this the housing of the turbo is dry and no obvious leaks but there is definitely excessive oil in the ic pipes. More than I've ever had and I cleaned them out a month ago.

So will the internal seals be going on the turbo or is it from the vent feed pipe into the air inlet?? I just can't tell.
I'm thinking of getting a catch can to help figure it out.

[ADV_93]

I run a TD04 and the way it's set up suits how i drive. Pootlin' around the city or in traffic, my turbo never spools, so i'm basically in a smokeless NAD and i get pretty good mpg. Then if i need a bit of power to over take a car or anything, above 3,000 rpm, it's there. If you have them set up properly they'll drive quite well, TD04's.

I always though if you're on boost at lower rpms (unless you're in a HDi) it will effect MPG's? Especially around town etc.

With respect to the turbochargers talked about in this, VNT's are certainly the way forward if you have the money and the time to set one up. You can make a pretty beasty XUD with the likes of a VNT. Only thing i'd say with a TD04 is, if you plant your foot at 2,000 rpm, don't expect a lot to happen until you're over 3,000-3,500 rpm.

[Piggy]

Off boost is inefficient.

So you would be doing better mpgs with a better turbo and with boost round town

[nominous]

maybe when global warming and a crap harvest forces the veg price up it'll change.

Veg a couple of years ago hit £1.20 in the super market.
Despite diesel being like £1.40 people were still using supermaket bought veg and saving the 20p.

Veg will never be more expensive than diesel in the UK.

[doogle-d turbo]

I run a TD04 and the way it's set up suits how i drive. Pootlin' around the city or in traffic, my turbo never spools, so i'm basically in a smokeless NAD and i get pretty good mpg. Then if i need a bit of power to over take a car or anything, above 3,000 rpm, it's there. If you have them set up properly they'll drive quite well, TD04's.

I always though if you're on boost at lower rpms (unless you're in a HDi) it will effect MPG's? Especially around town etc.

With respect to the turbochargers talked about in this, VNT's are certainly the way forward if you have the money and the time to set one up. You can make a pretty beasty XUD with the likes of a VNT. Only thing i'd say with a TD04 is, if you plant your foot at 2,000 rpm, don't expect a lot to happen until you're over 3,000-3,500 rpm.

My pumps set up pretty well with the k14 and I find I'll get pretty good mpg driving round until It gets on boost. I don't do much motorway driving anyway but when I do it will sit at 6-10 psi at 70mph which does burn the fuel faster. So that's a down side.

I'm still going to set a turbo up for when I do decide it's time but I probably won't be spending more than £250 all in.

I can get hold of a td04 pretty easy so it is still an option. I could really do with a ride in a few cars to get an idea of when and how the turbos talked about come on boost.

I see what piggys saying too, you want to be burning the fuel not bogging around with no boost for best mpg but there's a line.

Like I say though the car still shifts when I plant it. I've kept up with bmws and r32s till about 60-70 then they'll tend to take off...as expected.

[ADV_93]

I run a TD04 and the way it's set up suits how i drive. Pootlin' around the city or in traffic, my turbo never spools, so i'm basically in a smokeless NAD and i get pretty good mpg. Then if i need a bit of power to over take a car or anything, above 3,000 rpm, it's there. If you have them set up properly they'll drive quite well, TD04's.

I always though if you're on boost at lower rpms (unless you're in a HDi) it will effect MPG's? Especially around town etc.

With respect to the turbochargers talked about in this, VNT's are certainly the way forward if you have the money and the time to set one up. You can make a pretty beasty XUD with the likes of a VNT. Only thing i'd say with a TD04 is, if you plant your foot at 2,000 rpm, don't expect a lot to happen until you're over 3,000-3,500 rpm.

My pumps set up pretty well with the k14 and I find I'll get pretty good mpg driving round until It gets on boost. I don't do much motorway driving anyway but when I do it will sit at 6-10 psi at 70mph which does burn the fuel faster. So that's a down side.

I'm still going to set a turbo up for when I do decide it's time but I probably won't be spending more than £250 all in.

I can get hold of a td04 pretty easy so it is still an option. I could really do with a ride in a few cars to get an idea of when and how the turbos talked about come on boost.

I see what piggys saying too, you want to be burning the fuel not bogging around with no boost for best mpg but there's a line.

Like I say though the car still shifts when I plant it. I've kept up with bmws and r32s till about 60-70 then they'll tend to take off...as expected.

You might be a bit heavy footed on motorways, could usually, playing with the throttle get it down to about 4-6 psi on a motorway around 70 mph.

Cost is down to where you get it from and what condition it's in. I'll tell you straight away, a rebuild for my TD04 (done just to be safer rather than sorry) cost me £185. Bosch pump, lines and injectors from a breakers cost me £50 and the turbo cost me £100 with the manifold, adapter plates and oil feed. I've spent probably top end of £400 on the build which is expensive, but i like to build it knowing it's going to work.

At slower speeds they don't feel any different, just the same rattly 306 we all love. But once the turbo is spooling it's completely different car. Different powerband, sound, feel (and turbo noises)!

Mine doesn't bog at all, i've played with the fuel compensator on the pump so the bottom end still pulls alright, but with minimal smoke (and Bosch pumps barely smoke at all unless you make them).

[Piggy]

A xud turbo is more efficient with boost. Fact.

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Like I say though the car still shifts when I plant it. I've kept up with bmws and r32s till about 60-70 then they'll tend to take off...as expected.

I'd be surprised if you can keep up with R32s on full chat at any speed!

[silverzx]

VNT's and motorways - discuss.

[Piggy]

Setup properly. Brilliant. Setup poorly and EMPs could cause serious issues.

The GTB I am running is on a boost can at the minute, 1.5bar at 2000rpm easily but at 70 its only .3bar and EMP is about .2bar!

[doogle-d turbo]

As for the motorway once settled the psi will drop to what you say ADV 4-6 but it doesn't like to sit there. I prefer driving at 60-65 to keep it just coming on boost.

As for current hp, I havnt had it dyno'd and I guess you would be limiting between 140-50hp on a standard turbo. But compared to more modern petrol cars it moves and keeps up...to an extent.

It is all or nothing though when it reaches 2000/2500 rpm it pulls 22-4 psi and the engine "screams" may be the best way to put it...although I can tell its screaming for more boost .

I say 'kept up with an r32', maybe not but he definitely had a run for his money and the guy was shocked that he didn't leave me for dead.

I guess what I'm saying is when it 'goes' the car still puts a smile on my face but there's always that hunger for more as you well know.

VNTS and motorways, that's past me but interesting to hear peoples experience. Food for thought.

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Maybe for ease I should put a td04 on and be done with it. If it's not my cup of tea I can always swap for something else. However I'm sure any blower I bolt on is going to have me like a kid at Xmas.

[Piggy]

I would be very surprised if you are making 140bhp+ on an old k14...

What other engine mods are done?

[THE_Liam]

I would be very surprised if you are making 140bhp+ on an old k14...

What other engine mods are done?

Ruan made 146bhp on a K14, on a reliable RR.

[bashbarnard]

Ruan is the equivalent of turbo yoda on here though.

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But obviously proved it possible

[Piggy]

I would be very surprised if you are making 140bhp+ on an old k14...

What other engine mods are done?

Ruan made 146bhp on a K14, on a reliable RR.

Yeah I didnt say it wasnt possible!! I bet he wasnt on a standard pump neither!

[Ruan]

Engines have improved thermal efficiency with boost... As a general rule, the increase in pumping losses is vastly outweighed by the thermal efficiency increases of higher boost levels.

For example - my car with K14, used to do about 45mpg on the motorway, making about 2-3psi boost... Changed that for the GT2052V and instantly jumped to about 65mpg with 9-10psi boost on the motorway... Long as you're keeping charge temperatures down, you'll be gaining improved efficiency from higher boost.

If you think you consume more fuel when the boost is up, you're living in the land of petrol.