22-05-2014, 10:05 AM
Well done for getting it done in time as you really didn't make it easy for yourself!
It's a shame that you didn't get chance to get it in its finished state with the RS head and cams prior to mapping, as there's little doubt that the 1.8 items will be massively holding it back as it stands - when you remove the 1.8 head take a look at the inlet ports and you'll see exactly why I say that!
I don't see why you shouldn't see similar power figures to a GTi-6 when its done as fundementally power is just a function of airflow and revs. You'll be down a bit torque wise though due to the lower capacity.
From memory, the RS headed XU7 engine Welshpug mentioned was around 160hp and 125lbft. That was an XU7 bottom end, RS head/cams/manifolds and the cam timing advanced, so you should see a stronger mid-range in particular with ITB's. The map that was on it was pretty poor as well to be honest - I ended up getting involved sorting it out and we were seeing some noticeable improvements honing the ignition map when it blew a coolant hose on the rollers.
Those that are saying that you could have got similar results from a TD with the fuel cranked up are missing the point by a countly mile - the noise, response and crispness of a (well mapped!) engine on ITB's is in a different league frankly.
Get the loose ends finished up and enjoy it while you get all the RS bits ready for a swap and re-map sometime in the future
Bwwaaarrrpp!
As per Welshpug's comments, it's easy enough to get an engine on ITB's to start on the button and little nicely from cold, but it does tend to need a bit of tinkering and trial and error to get it right - you only get one or two chances a day to try it after all.
A general mapper without much experience of a particular engine is always going to struggle to get the settings for a cold start correct and can only really take an educated guess which inevitably won't be quite right - that's no surprise of course, as it's the sort of thing that takes the OEM's months to perfect and sign off on the original management.
A mapper who specialises in a particular engine type is likely to have experience to get the cold start values much closer to optimal. Sandy Brown is the obvious one that springs to mind for Peugeot XU and TU engines - certainly the XU's I've experienced or had mapped by him have cold started very well (indeed, I would wholeheartedly recommend him for mapping work)
I've sorted out the cold start on DTA's and Emerald's personally, so I do have some experience in this rather than regurgitating second hand info like many. ITB's I actually find easier than plenums to get a nice idle as you don't have the pulses from long duration cams screwing everything up.
That's the one big disadvantage with having the original management mapped like you have James, in that the settings are fixed and you can't tweek them yourself to perfect things like the cold start whereas it's very easy to change (if a little harder to get right!) on most aftermarket management, stuff like Weber Alpha excluded of course.
It's a shame that you didn't get chance to get it in its finished state with the RS head and cams prior to mapping, as there's little doubt that the 1.8 items will be massively holding it back as it stands - when you remove the 1.8 head take a look at the inlet ports and you'll see exactly why I say that!
I don't see why you shouldn't see similar power figures to a GTi-6 when its done as fundementally power is just a function of airflow and revs. You'll be down a bit torque wise though due to the lower capacity.
From memory, the RS headed XU7 engine Welshpug mentioned was around 160hp and 125lbft. That was an XU7 bottom end, RS head/cams/manifolds and the cam timing advanced, so you should see a stronger mid-range in particular with ITB's. The map that was on it was pretty poor as well to be honest - I ended up getting involved sorting it out and we were seeing some noticeable improvements honing the ignition map when it blew a coolant hose on the rollers.
Those that are saying that you could have got similar results from a TD with the fuel cranked up are missing the point by a countly mile - the noise, response and crispness of a (well mapped!) engine on ITB's is in a different league frankly.
Get the loose ends finished up and enjoy it while you get all the RS bits ready for a swap and re-map sometime in the future
Bwwaaarrrpp!
(21-05-2014, 10:19 AM)jammapic Wrote: Welshpug, the problem isn't shit mapping. It's low volumetic efficiency, at low rpm (made worse with bigger cams), no plenum, and fuel droplets clinging to the inside of the trumpets and bodies when they are very cold.... but I am sure you knew that.
As per Welshpug's comments, it's easy enough to get an engine on ITB's to start on the button and little nicely from cold, but it does tend to need a bit of tinkering and trial and error to get it right - you only get one or two chances a day to try it after all.
A general mapper without much experience of a particular engine is always going to struggle to get the settings for a cold start correct and can only really take an educated guess which inevitably won't be quite right - that's no surprise of course, as it's the sort of thing that takes the OEM's months to perfect and sign off on the original management.
A mapper who specialises in a particular engine type is likely to have experience to get the cold start values much closer to optimal. Sandy Brown is the obvious one that springs to mind for Peugeot XU and TU engines - certainly the XU's I've experienced or had mapped by him have cold started very well (indeed, I would wholeheartedly recommend him for mapping work)
I've sorted out the cold start on DTA's and Emerald's personally, so I do have some experience in this rather than regurgitating second hand info like many. ITB's I actually find easier than plenums to get a nice idle as you don't have the pulses from long duration cams screwing everything up.
That's the one big disadvantage with having the original management mapped like you have James, in that the settings are fixed and you can't tweek them yourself to perfect things like the cold start whereas it's very easy to change (if a little harder to get right!) on most aftermarket management, stuff like Weber Alpha excluded of course.
1990 Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 // 1991 Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 16v // 1992 Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 // 1999 Peugeot 306 HDi Estate