Cummins Drift Truck a la Dum-Dum

[welshpug]

not 100%, but might be dana 28 or 30 axles, depends how much ford it is rather than rebadged Mazda.

[procta]

Dum dum I would give the engine bay a good stone chip and paint, while you are prepping.
How easy is this going to be dum dum? I know it wont be plug in play as you will have to do some engineering.

[Poodle]

How solid are those mounting points? Look a bit rusty for strapping a honking great motor to...

[cully]

have you sold/scrapped it yet?

[ginge191]

Hope this goes through and doesn't end up as a stop motion 'watch me get happy with an angle grinder' video

[Dum-Dum]

Like.

Cheers buddy

not 100%, but might be dana 28 or 30 axles, depends how much ford it is rather than rebadged Mazda.

Nah I think it's pure Mazda.

Dum dum I would give the engine bay a good stone chip and paint, while you are prepping.
How easy is this going to be dum dum? I know it wont be plug in play as you will have to do some engineering.

Yeah the top of the bay is getting a good coating of hammerite.
It won't be plug and play but the engine mounts look pretty f*cking close to being right for width and height. It's hard to tell exactly how much will need doing as nobody has ever put one in a European Ford Ranger. Wiring is simple, like an XUD there is only a couple needed to actually make it run and plumbing in the rad and heater matrix is nothing special.

How solid are those mounting points? Look a bit rusty for strapping a honking great motor to...

They are really sturdy, the rust is superficial.

have you sold/scrapped it yet?

Yes.

Hope this goes through and doesn't end up as a stop motion 'watch me get happy with an angle grinder' video

Cheers buddy, there might need to be a fair bit of angle grinder effort to get the gearbox under the chassis.

[Ruan]

Nothing can prepare you for the size of a 6BT - you think you know how big they are, then it arrives and you're like 'oh f*ck'...

That firewall and tranny tunnel is gonna require some serious percussive maintenance to get it to fit!!!

[procta]

Dum dum, I wouldn't use hammerite, as I found it doesn't last at all. Stone chip works mind, and I think you can paint of the top of that too.

[Dum-Dum]

Nothing can prepare you for the size of a 6BT - you think you know how big they are, then it arrives and you're like 'oh f*ck'...

That firewall and tranny tunnel is gonna require some serious percussive maintenance to get it to fit!!!

No I'm pretty sure I've got an idea. I've seen diagrams that put the engine at 1m long by 1m tall, to put that into perspective my engine bay is 85cm long (slam panel to bulkhead) but then that is a little longer than a land rover bay. The bay is also nowhere near tall enough but some creative bodywork will fix that.

Dum dum, I wouldn't use hammerite, as I found it doesn't last at all. Stone chip works mind, and I think you can paint of the top of that too.

You obviously aren't applying it right. I've seen it stick on wheels and brakes for years and years. In fact we painted the front valance on my mates mk3 fiesta (the rustiest car known to man) when it started looking tatty with silver brush on hammerite. We saw it years later after he'd got rid in a scrap yard, the valance was still perfect looking and silver and the only pannel of the car that wasn't crusty as f*ck.

TL;DR, I trust hammerite, I'm sticking with it.

[Slam Wagon]

Have a look at buzzweld before you start painting stuff, they do alot of good stuff for rust prevention etc

[Mattcheese31]

How have I missed this? This is a beautiful project, hope it comes off for you fella

[Piggy]

Less chatter, more hammer.

[Dum-Dum]

Have a look at buzzweld before you start painting stuff, they do alot of good stuff for rust prevention etc

Had a look and it looks like good stuff but for price and the fact I don't have a spray gun I'm sticking with what I know.

How have I missed this? This is a beautiful project, hope it comes off for you fella

Cheers buddy, you won't miss it again right?

Less chatter, more hammer.

Sorry dude, I'll crack on tomorrow or Tuesday as I have some very important beer to drink today xx

[Dum-Dum]

Had a package turn up all the way from the good old U S of A

A bit of bargain off American eBay, the upper shifter tower for a ZF box. It was BINoBO and I offered him $25 looking to haggle and he accepted.

Just need a similar bargain on the middle bit (if not they are about 80 euros from Germany).

   
   

[Dum-Dum]

Removed the original exhaust from the truck today, It was only on by 1 hanger as every other one had rusted and snapped. Got £16 for weighing in the cat. Still got the original box and spare wheel to remove from the underside before I'd consider it clear of crap underneath.
   


And I took a photo to use as a sig then re-sized it slightly
   

[mikey b]

This should be pretty epic was talking t you about it the other night like I said I will see if I can get hold of the chap that breaks the lorrys and see what I can do love these engines I play with a tractor (marshal 804 ) that we fitted one in and it pulls so well so should go well in your truck

[Dum-Dum]

This should be pretty epic was talking t you about it the other night like I said I will see if I can get hold of the chap that breaks the lorrys and see what I can do love these engines I play with a tractor (marshal 804 ) that we fitted one in and it pulls so well so should go well in your truck

Yeah cheers mate, still very excited with my new project.

[Chris306]

24v starter system seems the easier simpler cheaper version to me. Might be wrong but the amps drawn from a 12v starter to turn an engine that size are goin be high enough to start melting wiring and knackering starters an battery's. Don't some of the old merc diesel cars run a 24v starter relay system.

[Dum-Dum]

24v starter system seems the easier simpler cheaper version to me. Might be wrong but the amps drawn from a 12v starter to turn an engine that size are goin be high enough to start melting wiring and knackering starters an battery's. Don't some of the old merc diesel cars run a 24v starter relay system.

Easier, simpler and cheaper in what world?

Running complex wiring for the 12/24v switch and finding space to fit a second battery isnt easy
Again wiring in the 12/24v switch isn't the simplest thing on earth
And as for cheaper the 12/24v switch is £130 plus another battery for £100 and then all the extra length of battery cables will add up to as much if not more than rewinding of having a custom built starter at £200-£300 (I've already had quotes)

As for enough amps to melt wiring have you not seen my maths earlier in this thread. Feel free to check the formula yourself but essentially 4kw starter divided by 12v is 333amps of current draw. Most decent batteries will provide at least 500amps of starting power.

As for old Mercs I don't know and don't care, it's a wiring, financial and packaging complexity that I don't want or need as it will work on 12v as lets not forget some of these engines DO run a pure 12v system.

[Poodle]

Reckon you'll be fitting a commercial battery? Think you'll find the standard one will poo itself if you go 12V starter.

When do you actually start building it then?

[cully]

why not run 24v in the starter and 12v on the car via a second non charging battery then every couple of days swap the batterys over to charge?
im sure it wont be a daily use car

[Chris306]

24v starter system seems the easier simpler cheaper version to me. Might be wrong but the amps drawn from a 12v starter to turn an engine that size are goin be high enough to start melting wiring and knackering starters an battery's. Don't some of the old merc diesel cars run a 24v starter relay system.

Easier, simpler and cheaper in what world?

Running complex wiring for the 12/24v switch and finding space to fit a second battery isnt easy
Again wiring in the 12/24v switch isn't the simplest thing on earth
And as for cheaper the 12/24v switch is £130 plus another battery for £100 and then all the extra length of battery cables will add up to as much if not more than rewinding of having a custom built starter at £200-£300 (I've already had quotes)

As for enough amps to melt wiring have you not seen my maths earlier in this thread. Feel free to check the formula yourself but essentially 4kw starter divided by 12v is 333amps of current draw. Most decent batteries will provide at least 500amps of starting power.

As for old Mercs I don't know and don't care, it's a wiring, financial and packaging complexity that I don't want or need as it will work on 12v as lets not forget some of these engines DO run a pure 12v system.

Bit over defensive but whatever, space isn't really an issue its a pickup, how is the wiring to complicated when Darren's already done it himself and has told you how to do it?, and cheaper yes 12v24v switch 130 plus battery 100 is 230, you've been quoted between 300 and 400.

Can't see why you'd be messing about getting one rewound when a LRB 381 Transit alternator fits with the vac pump on the back of it and 12v starter from a daf 45 non turbo fits with 10mm of spacing out.

And yes you've done your maths but if you think that 500 cca are goin to turn a cummin 6bt at a decent pace then obviously it isn't me that's not in reality

[mr_fish]

Too much talk of 12/24v

I want to see mad welding fabrications



Have you sourced the 6 banger yet chris? I'll literally LOL if you have bought a DAF 45 and break it up on your driveway

[Dum-Dum]

Reckon you'll be fitting a commercial battery? Think you'll find the standard one will poo itself if you go 12V starter.

When do you actually start building it then?

I'll actually start building it as and when I have an engine.
As for a commercial battery everyone keeps saying that the starting power is going to destroy stuff but nobody can refute the maths that show it's only 333amps to start it.

why not run 24v in the starter and 12v on the car via a second non charging battery then every couple of days swap the batterys over to charge?
im sure it wont be a daily use car

It won't be a daily and I certainly won't be driving it to work (london low emissions zone £ra*e) but constantly swapping batteries about sounds like a right pain in the arse, it's also cost of second battery and a load of extra leads.

Bit over defensive but whatever, space isn't really an issue its a pickup, how is the wiring to complicated when Darren's already done it himself and has told you how to do it?, and cheaper yes 12v24v switch 130 plus battery 100 is 230, you've been quoted between 300 and 400.

Can't see why you'd be messing about getting one rewound when a LRB 381 Transit alternator fits with the vac pump on the back of it and 12v starter from a daf 45 non turbo fits with 10mm of spacing out.

And yes you've done your maths but if you think that 500 cca are goin to turn a cummin 6bt at a decent pace then obviously it isn't me that's not in reality

Yes, very defensive of answering the same questions over and over again especially as I'm starting to get the feeling that alot of people are just of the opinion that "Darren did it this way so your way must be wrong". Your maths is missing £20-50 worth of battery cables and also adding £100 to the estimate I've had on a rewind or a rebuild.

The 12v non turbo ones don't fit properly even with a 10mm spacer as the pitch on the teeth is wrong as they use a different fly wheel. As for 12v not turning it quick enough, obviously it does or they wouldn't make 12v starters for some cummins motors, they don't use daft big batteries either, just a 12v 540amp battery. That and there is at least one of the land rover conversions running a full 12v system.

Nobody seems to offer any evidence of why it won't work, just opinions without any grounding.

Too much talk of 12/24v

I want to see mad welding fabrications



Have you sourced the 6 banger yet chris? I'll literally LOL if you have bought a DAF 45 and break it up on your driveway

Not got a lump yet, trying to work on getting one super cheap as £500 is nice but £300 would be much more friendly on the wallet.
It actually has tempted me to buy a 45 to break on the drive as you can get a truck cheaper than some people sell the engines but I don't think there is the money in breaking them really. I go past one about a mile and a half down the road every day on the train (can't see it from the road) and I do wonder how much they'd want for it.

[cully]

cully
why not run 24v in the starter and 12v on the car via a second non charging battery then every couple of days swap the batterys over to charge?
im sure it wont be a daily use car
It won't be a daily and I certainly won't be driving it to work (london low emissions zone £ra*e) but constantly swapping batteries about sounds like a right pain in the arse, it's also cost of second battery and a load of extra leads.

If you are worryed about a length of wire and a battery price this project will never get going!
thats a minor expence compared to whats comming

Now prove me wrong!

good luck chris

[Dum-Dum]

cully
why not run 24v in the starter and 12v on the car via a second non charging battery then every couple of days swap the batterys over to charge?
im sure it wont be a daily use car
It won't be a daily and I certainly won't be driving it to work (london low emissions zone £ra*e) but constantly swapping batteries about sounds like a right pain in the arse, it's also cost of second battery and a load of extra leads.

If you are worryed about a length of wire and a battery price this project will never get going!
thats a minor expence compared to whats comming

Now prove me wrong!

good luck chris

I'm not worried about it particularly as I am aware this build is going to run well into the thousands but look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. A few quid here and a few quid there saved off the big things then pays for things like oil lines, silicone hoses and turbo adapters.

[Poodle]

Only mentioned it because car batteries never see that sort of load on them, you know what i'm like for over-engineering. For some reason i had it in my head you already had a lump, roll on the ebay sessions!

[darrenjlobb]

As said, its your project and makes no odds to anyone else how you do it, was just the advice / recommendation from me, In no way have I said its the only way / best way to do it...

What I will say however, is IMO if you dont want to be getting teasy on cold mornings, or after you left the radio running for 10 minutes and your truck wont start, then twin battery / 24v is likely the better option... The factory 12v motors have a bigger reduction from starter - ring gear...and even then, they can be a bitch to start at times. The only extra bits you need is the shunt relay, and a few battery cables, but battery ring crimps are pennys, and im sure your able to rob plenty of starter cable / welding cable from cheap scrappers etc?
Im only giving the advice because I spent far to long messing around trying to keep things 12v, and in the end, wish I had just 24v'ed it from the word go and saved myself alot of hassle..

But yes, it WILL work, and your plan is fine....I would personally just do it differently, but no one said you had to do it the same way! I guess I just like to over size / engineer most parts, to try and get reliability.

[bashbarnard]

I dont really have an input on the while 12v/24v thing as to be honet i dont really know enough about them. I would inagine either would work wih advantagers and disadvantages. However i digress.

I genuinally belive that you are going to do this and get it running for some reason. (Track record isnt great lets be honest) so any questions you have that you think i can anser drop me a pm and ill do my best. Would love nothing more than to have a hand in a project like this.

Just take your time do it once and do it right my man. Im sure finding the engine is probably the easiet bit.

[Dum-Dum]

Only mentioned it because car batteries never see that sort of load on them, you know what i'm like for over-engineering. For some reason i had it in my head you already had a lump, roll on the ebay sessions!

Oh yeah, I do like a bit of over engineering but there is times when I need the simplest answer and also I need people to realise when they are not going to dissuade me and sit back and wait for their "I told you so" moment.

As said, its your project and makes no odds to anyone else how you do it, was just the advice / recommendation from me, In no way have I said its the only way / best way to do it...

No, I'm not saying you said your way was the only way or the best way but you have a huge following of people who believe that you are always right even if you are actually just experimenting just as much as the rest of us.

I genuinally belive that you are going to do this and get it running for some reason. (Track record isnt great lets be honest) so any questions you have that you think i can anser drop me a pm and ill do my best. Would love nothing more than to have a hand in a project like this.

Just take your time do it once and do it right my man. Im sure finding the engine is probably the easiet bit.

I will be having an engine fitting day at some point and you are definitely invited to that. Also I will need someone to sort out my brake lines when I get a new rear axle, hydraulic handbrake and bias valve as I am TERRIBLE at making brake pipes.

---

Forgot why I was posting on here, progress

Got the box out (without removing the crossmembers)
   



Left a reasonable space in the tunnel
   



I'd cleared off the center console as it was in an absolutely minging state (along with most of the interior TBH). Been eyeing up the tunnel for cutting and seeing what I need to remove but haven't chopped anything yet as I don't know where the ZF will sit.
   



And I got the pedal box refitted, on the second attempt as I didn't line the clevis for the brakes up first time and bolted it down without realising. The brakes work and the hole centers are within 2mm of being right for the 30mm clutch master cylinder I've been eyeing up.
   





Finally, no pic but found the dick head I bought it off has removed every single fuse from the fuse box, not the worlds biggest issue except they are micro fuses and so 4 times as f*cking expensive.