MG ZR: Cams & Maps

[lolsteve]

I tried the 12 and 6 a clock wiggle though and put a bar underneath the tyre for leverage but didn't feel much :/

[lolsteve]

Changed the lower arms and drop links.

Was alot easier than I thought it was going to be, expected rusty bolts and lots of swearing when instead I got everything come out nice and easy.
And seems to have fixed the knocking noise too which is nice  didn't get many pictures though but it's nice knowing I have fresh suspension on the front now. Steering feels much better as in it's lighter although the tracking is off and it's still pulling to the left 

Pictures are of the old drop links, it seems the new delphi ones I put on have more weld around the base. The originals seem to have the same amount of weld as the ebay specials funnily enough 

[lolsteve]

So getting a nice tax rebate soon so been looking at stuff to buy  


Been thinking about port&polishing the head for some time now as want to make sure the engine is able to properly breath and rover casting quality leaves something to be desired...ahem

Anyway found this interesting site with some flowbench values on 
http://www.sabre-heads.co.uk/2.html
Sounds like the guy running it was involved with rover during the 143 to 160 headwork and alot of the proposed improvements were turned down..
"while employed with Janspeed, we were asked by Rover to make changes to the VVC casting. Many porting, chamber/seatwork changes were made/offered BUT rover decided, to their detriment, to only implement the most basic of these changes - we later found this was part of the VVC160 development- so while people think the 160 casting to be far superior, it in fact offers little against the earlier version"


----
First line of figures is the Std Inlet flow(143). 31.5mm valves. All std parts.                                                                                  

19.3    39.7     62.1     82        97.97      106.5      109.95      112.7      113.4


Later 160hp spec VVC. 31.5mm valves. All std parts, barely improved flow over 145hp version. 
21.1    43.9     65.2     84.2     98.55      104.9       111.3       113.4      114
-----
So the lower lift flow is greater on the 160 as advertised by rover but it seems after that the heads have about the same capacity. 
And exhaust..
-----
EXHAUST flow, 143hp VVC/Motorsport casting. Std flow- 27.4mm valves. All std parts. 

17.1    35.3     52.7     64.3      70.1      73.4       74.7      76.4      78


Later 160 spec VVC. 27.4mm valves. All std parts. Barely improved flow over 145 version. 
17.2    36.7     53.5     66.4      73.4      76.8       78.4      79.1      80
-----

Also ever since fitting the coilovers I've started taking an interest in how the car looks. Maybe I've been hit by the scene bug but really want to get the scratches and rust sorted now. bought some ebay clay bar and tesco polish too so as to have a play at "detailing"  helps I have a huge bag full of armour all better than a wax sample packets 

[Midnightclub]

Certainly sounds like it's performing better recently, do you feel it's still slightly down on power or up to about where it should be now?

[lolsteve]

Thanks, want to get the blowing exhaust fixed soon as in case its going lean :/ Manifold is only £200 so not a massive loss just the 3 week waiting is a bit poo

Also been looking at ELM logging on the laptop, found a good bit of software although the website i got it from said on some computes it can spoof the values a bit..i think im one of the unlucky ones. looking to see if i can fix it as would be useful to log data like ignition  

[lolsteve]

Went to visit a friend at his new place and since the weather was nice we decided to play with the mapping
Zr pop n bang: https://youtu.be/XsUuzQlqCzg

[Poodle]

What's the whining, have you ninja-supercharged it? :o

[lolsteve]

Haha sadly not. It's just the belts, they're new but they've just whined from the start. Won't be on for so many k miles though as wanting to get the head ported so will change them out then

---

Also heres the ZS pop & bang, not so aggressive since he doesnt have a blowing manifold . Bit has a restrictive center pipe and backbox (2.25 inch dia instead of 2.5 )
https://youtu.be/pvV6g5aMXFM

[jammapic]

Ignition retard and lean out? Just make sure you smooth the first column in the tps axis otherwise the step up to normal light throttle ignition timing will give a massive jerk when you get back on the gas lightly and make it very hard to drive smoothly..

[Poodle]

That's a LOUD whine dude, might be worth backing the tension off a touch, especially if you're doing more track time this summer.

[C2K]

You shouldn't chronic belt whine on a K. They purr nicely, never had one whine.

[procta]

never had a belt whine on me, yeah squeel a little, but that was due to the belt not been tightend enough or old.
They just purr happerly as C2k said,

[lolsteve]

Interesting..Blueys engine never did this whine but I have taken it to a MG garage who checked the tension etc and said it was okay.
Really don't want to do the belt job again as it was a right pain in the **** last time, possibly the unipart belt was a bit poo

[1616six]

I had a new Gates timing belt & tensioners fitted to my Astra a few weeks back & it has whined ever since. It went back and it was checked in front of me (auto tensioner) and the tension is fine. No idea.

Let me know if you sort yours!

[Poodle]

Ah yeah i do remember having this conversation before now, sorry. Perhaps it's an issue with gates tensioners/belts...?

[lolsteve]

Ignition retard and lean out? Just make sure you smooth the first column in the tps axis otherwise the step up to normal light throttle ignition timing will give a massive jerk when you get back on the gas lightly and make it very hard to drive smoothly..

Trade secret  but it is going to take some fine tuning as the ZS guy said it's a bit harsh when coming back onto the throttle when cold. I took the map off mine as it was a bit violent with the leaking manifold

Ah yeah i do remember having this conversation before now, sorry. Perhaps it's an issue with gates tensioners/belts...?

These were unipart as I recall but should have gone for a better brand


Janspeed have now bumped up their turn around time to 8 weeks! So they got a snotty email


Trying local fabrication places but one place wanted 550 plus vat and I had to send them my old manifold with a 10-15 day turn around. Don't know if that's what I should be expecting or what. Sadly the temp bodge is not holding out well and is blowing badly again 

[procta]

can you not buy a replacement manifold off the shelf? as I am sure you can for these still, unless they have stopped supporting these too. I have been told piper are stopping making exhausts for the metros now.

[lolsteve]

Can't find any though :/ tempted to buy a standard manifold just to have a working setup for a while but $
Got my usb elm reader today for more data logging. On about a -10% long term fuel trim when I looked forgot to log it though and confirmed idl, overrun and cruising kpa

[jammapic]

Trade secret... Lol. Its the same on any car / ecu ;-)

[lolsteve]

Trade secret... Lol. Its the same on any car / ecu ;-)

shhhhh
It's more knowing what's what in the files though. The lil experiment with the popNbang taught me a few things and confirmed some other stuff too 

[procta]

Can't find any though :/ tempted to buy a standard manifold just to have a working setup for a while but $
Got my usb elm reader today for more data logging. On about a -10% long term fuel trim when I looked forgot to log it though and confirmed idl, overrun and cruising kpa

Christ they must have stopped making them then! you could buy a system for these with out a bother and goes for the manifolds!

[lolsteve]

Don't think they're normally this bad just a very busy time..
got a new timing belt now as now it's been pointed out I can't stop hearing the whining noise. Ordered a contitech from euros andpicked up a dayco

[lolsteve]

What a farce. Spent all weekend trying to get the dickhead timing right.
Everything would be lined up nice and perfect and then as soon as I put tension in the tensioner it pulls the crank half a tooth out. Tried to compensate by putting the crank out the other way but it didn't work. Don't want to drive the car really in case I damage anything although it was running 90 degrees out at the crank before with only 1 minor valve kiss so this should be okay (in theory) 

Crank too advance (clockwise)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb8ZhafQOtI

Crank too retaded (anti closewise) - this one sounds better to me but need to loosen the timing belt as I over tightened it to try and pull the crank around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swt0iFKrfEI

[procta]

there is a video on you tube on how to do the belt on this, see how the lad does it, as you might be doing something wrong.

[Niall]

Not trying to slag off your spannering but are you sure you're fitting the belt correctly?
Its not just a case of banging it on there. Im assuming your cams will rotate back and forth slightly when locked to allow you to take up the slack between them?

[procta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qn8ljQKZxA

[lolsteve]

No offence taken Niall, there's a locking tool in place to stop the cams moving but allows a bit of freedom to get the teeth in. I assume the exhaust to crank is as taught as I can go
Unlike in the video I have the tensioner in place before hand as its a right pain trying to get the tensioner bolt in when the engine is in the car. He has it easy with the engine being out the car. I then have it half on half off and slide it over the pulleys etc into place
Ive found that sometimes the belt is really easy to get over the tensioner (like in the last attempt with the crank being put the other direction) and other times it just does not want to go into place hence why I prefer to leave the tensioner in

Procta in that video though as the end you can see his crank pulley is slightly out of alignment (9:40) he even times it up to the crank then has to move it a bit to get the cams to line up

[procta]

Steve that's just the angle of the video,

[Paul_13]

Is there a crack in your bottom timing cog? Or is that dirt?

[lolsteve]

But even he lines it up and then has to nudge it forward to get the cams right.

You had me worried then but no it's just dirt, one of the previous photos doesnt have it

---

Reading through this
http://www.vgkracing.com/k%20engine%20EU3.pdf

Seems the tensioner should be in position ready for tension before fitting the belt rather than my method of a couple of turns on the bolt so it has room to move. Unsure if it'll fit though as it seems to be a right struggle getting belts to fit. Will also try locking the flywheel, never had to do it on previous cars but worth a shot