looking for uprated suspension components info

[ozonehostile]

as title says, basicly im looking to build the ultimate suspension setup

first up, i already have coilovers and adjustable shocks on a gti rear beam and on the lookout for thicker torsion bars, mostly looking into upgrading all the bushes, droplinks, perhaps wishbones and whatever else there is out there.

i am aware of uprated bushes but dont really know much more other than they exist, so what sort should i be looking for, where can i get them and how well do they work?

the standard droplinks don't really look very high quality, would some adjustable rose jointed droplinks be an improvement? if so, what would i need to make some/buy them

now for the really serious stuff, what race spec wishbones are out there? ive seen on rally cars they use titanium to make ultra strength/ultra light partsm, are there any products like this off the shelf for the 306?

also, opinions on adjustable camber topmounts please


thanks in advance

[Rippthrough]

~£500 for some rosejointed tubular wishbones in CDS, £550 in T45. Can't use the standard front arb with them though.

[ozonehostile]

~£500 for some rosejointed tubular wishbones in CDS, £550 in T45. Can't use the standard front arb with them though.

what arb do you have to use? where can i get some

[Rippthrough]

I just use stiffer springs on mine.

[Piggy]

has anyone considered having custom independent rear suspension?

[Ed Doe]

as title says, basicly im looking to build the ultimate suspension setup

first up, i already have coilovers and adjustable shocks on a gti rear beam and on the lookout for thicker torsion bars, mostly looking into upgrading all the bushes, droplinks, perhaps wishbones and whatever else there is out there.

i am aware of uprated bushes but dont really know much more other than they exist, so what sort should i be looking for, where can i get them and how well do they work?

the standard droplinks don't really look very high quality, would some adjustable rose jointed droplinks be an improvement? if so, what would i need to make some/buy them

now for the really serious stuff, what race spec wishbones are out there? ive seen on rally cars they use titanium to make ultra strength/ultra light partsm, are there any products like this off the shelf for the 306?

also, opinions on adjustable camber topmounts please


thanks in advance

Can I ask why you want race-spec suspension? I'm not trying to be shitty, I just want to make sure you know what you want from the car.

Also, race-spec suspension removes things like the passive rear-steer, and increases camber for outright grip round corners. This is great for out and out speed round racetracks, but isn't neccessarily as involving or as much fun as as well set up road car. Ruan will hark on about this, but that imo is the difference between a well sorted 306 and for instance a older Civic Type R. The Civic will most likely have more grip round the corner, but I bet you anything in a well sorted 306 you'd have a bigger grin than the Type R driver. The 306 is so enjoyable to drive because you know what it's doing and you can get absurdly close to the limit and sometimes a bit beyond and still know you can keep it all together. This makes it feel brilliant down a back-road as you can give it absolute death and it just wants more. Whereas with the Civic (only an example, as they have independent rear suspension and god knows how many decent upgrades overnight from Japan), you can go absurdly fast, and then you get to the limit, and it WILL kill you. Straight away. There's less progression to how it drives and less warning, because it's all focused on Maximum grip and cornering speed. That's just my opinion anyway, I'm sure you've given it a lot of thought in regard to what you're trying to achieve with your car, but just be a bit careful what you think you want, as throwing race parts onto it may not give you the desired outcome...


Anyway, IMO, a GOOD set-up for a car spending most of its time on the road would be;

1. Bilstein B8s all round, or if you want to go for a more track-orientated car then coilovers.
2. STOCK top-mounts, or again if it's more of a track-car then some adjustable camber/caster mounts with spherical bearings.
3. Hybrid ARB & uprated TBs
4. Replace rear-beam mounts for new OEM
5. Rose-jointed Droplinks.
6. Meyle HD wishbones or possibly vibratechnics P & D Bushes.
7. Possibly a ZX 16v rear beam, though the improvement in turn-in with 0 Toe does have a trade-off in how snappy it is on the limit, and how nervous it is at speed with other uprated parts.....

Personally if you're using the car on the road, I wouldn't go much more hard-core than that, as getting more uprated parts will make the ride a lot harsher. On track the tarmac is nice and smooth most of the time, meaning taking all the rubber out of the bushes (like rollerbearing wisbones etc) doesn't sacrifice the contact time of the tyres on the tarmac. If you go too hard on the parts for a road car, you'll find it's an animal on really smooth roads, but will tend to skip over the surface on harsh roads, meaning you can't drive it as hard.

It's ultimately what you want to get out of the car, and I would say the set-up I've listed above will give you near enough the best compromise; a lot more enjoyment on the road, and plenty of fun on track...

---

has anyone considered having custom independent rear suspension?

People have done it. There's a bloke who races a White '6 on the Gti6 forum who has converted the rear to coilovers, but it looks like it's really taken some time to set up right...

[puglove]

has anyone considered having custom independent rear suspension?

Thought about it several times. And never done nothing about it lol. There was a lad from my area that raced a 306 at castle combe who had a completly adjustable coilover rear beam. Only issue was everything was low slung and would of been massivly unusable on the roads as the coilover would just catch all the time. So it isnt really a usable idea for the road.

[ozonehostile]

The car is exclusively a weekend toy with a few track days and treasure hunt rallies thrown in. In after a setup that will be maximum useability for road use (not popping the lightbulbs and breaking my spine everytime I hit a bump) but also enough stiffness to make it a trackday machine.
I have h&k coilovers up front with a big box of different rate springs to experiment
With, got a rear beam ready to go on that will have new mounts.

Thanks ed, got alot to think about

[Pompey306mark]

I think most people who have been in my car by themselves will agree its a pretty fun place to be.
Not the most comfortable maybe but fun. So I will just tell you what I have.

Solid rear mounts.
Gti rear beam.
22mm rear torsion bars.
Hybrid rear ARB.
Gaz gold rear dampers.


Gaz gold front coilovers, can't remember the spring rate, it's in my thread somewhere.
PhilipM rose jointed drop links.
Gti front ARB.
Meyle hd wishbones (been on over two years no issues so far)
Compbrake top mounts (but of ed gets a good deal going over to BM)

Other important things to consider.
Weight of wheels and brake calipers and disc's.
Might be worth getting a Xsara quick steer rack. (I have one and they are great)
Tyres. No point doing all of the above, if you going to put shit or half shit tyres on the thing.

As ed said the trade off, mine is a daily drive, but I don't mind my ride comfort to much, if I had to spend all day in my car 5 days a week I would get something bigger and better. But I don't.

[Piggy]

what difference have you found the Xsara VTS rack to make?!

[Ed Doe]

Lol he's not fitted one yet! But it's quicker, ie less turns lock to lock.

[Bananalad]

Id like to have my car as solid as possible Comfort is over rated

[Rippthrough]

has anyone considered having custom independent rear suspension?

The rear suspension is already independent.

[Kwik]

Lol he's not fitted one yet! But it's quicker, ie less turns lock to lock.

Pompey mark does have one on his ed

[Ed Doe]

true indeed Kwik!

[Ben]

Id like to have my car as solid as possible Comfort is over rated

Solid as possible will often mean less grip on most of our roads!

[Pompey306mark]

Who's not fitted one yet? My car has had one for months. Less turns lock to lock, feels a lot more responsive too.

[ozonehostile]

Did all xsara vts have a quick rack? Pre or post facelift models?

[Pompey306mark]

Phase 1 has the quickest, phase 2 is still quicker than ours.
Phase 1 is a straight fit on our phase 1 cars.

[c.gerrard]

I've been wanting to upgrade shock absorbers for a while now, but a lot of the info is about 40mm springs. Do you reckon Bilstein B8s will be fine on 60mm springs, they're the ones I'm leaning towards!

I can definitely recommend thicker TB's though. I've got 22's in mine and they made an amazing difference.

[C2K]

P2 is 2.6 turns lock to lock, P1 2.4 turns lock to lock. Don't pay the high prices you see on the forum.

Phase 2 fits fine, you just need the pipes too as the interface is different.

[ozonehostile]

Doubt Il ever find a xsara vts at a scrappy, bit still, interested in Finding one for the steering rack and torsion bars

[Piggy]

has anyone considered having custom independent rear suspension?

The rear suspension is already independent.

ah but not nearly enough

independent wishbones for the win

---

Doubt Il ever find a xsara vts at a scrappy, bit still, interested in Finding one for the steering rack and torsion bars

me love a shorter rack too....

[Rippthrough]

Not enough? Take the arb out then, you won't get any more independent....

[cwspellowe]

Out of interest Phil, what lb-age front springs do you run?

I'm in the no front ARB club too. Weird to get used to, but seems to like the camber better.

[Rippthrough]

185lb at the minute, but it's going up to 285lb once I sort the rear out, I took the twin springs out until I have the beam done as it was a touch unbalanced.
Leans like a ship in a storm atm but it's good fun.

[Piggy]

but the movement of a trailing arm just cannot be compared to that of a fully adjustable wishbone....plus the quick adjustability of spring and damper rates!

plus they look the dogs and save weight

[Ed Doe]

Piggy, see my long response above re 'handling characteristics'

A full wishbone conversion hasn't been done on a 306, as there really is no need, and as for damping adjustment, if you struggle to quickly adjust rear dampers on a stock rear set up with adjustable dampers, you shouldn't be working on cars! And as for spring rates, it would be easier but I fail to see the necessity really unless you're going for an all out race spec. But even then I don't think you'd benefit from adjusting spring rates much once you've fohd one that works well with he rest of the cars setup...

As regards weight saving, the car has been designed to give a fairly good weight distribution. Ripping out a load of weight from the rear axle, combined with the inevitable stripping a Racecar will undergo will significantly affect how it handles, as it'll become very nose heavy, with the rear end all over the place...

[Rippthrough]

but the movement of a trailing arm just cannot be compared to that of a fully adjustable wishbone....plus the quick adjustability of spring and damper rates!

plus they look the dogs and save weight

It goes up, it goes down. The trailing arms on the buggy are pretty easily adjustable
I do have a rear axle kit in the works, but not for the reasons you're thinking of

[Piggy]

If your serious about stripping it and making a track car fully independent simply works.

It was just a suggestion...didnt expect him to take it on as it would cost a fortune.

Pug went for that setup as its more cost effective, yes, it works....but when you have driven a rear beam car that is then proffesionally converted, the difference is amazing.

Yes, huge amount of work involved, redoing corner weights etc but if track toy was the aim, it would be the ultimate