HDi Clutch Change

[Toms306]

Hello,

I like the way Sam's thinking about his remap before the car even has a clutch, talk about priorities haha.

Anyway, we should be attempting this on Wednesday - now as its not exactly close to mine, or indeed halfords, I would like to know if theres any specific tools or extra parts that we'll need to complete the job.

In all honesty, I'm not worried about hub nuts or gearbox oil yet as I seriously doubt it'll be back together the same day we start lol, but I'd still like to know what we'll need.

So the tools -

-We both have socket sets so theres plenty of those
-I have an electric impact wrench with some impact sockets - But I'm not sure what size the hub nuts are on the front, any chance of them coming off with the impact wrench anyway?
-We've got a few jack's between us so should have enough to hold the engine and box seperatly plus of course axle stands
-I have a hammer
- We'll need some sort of clutch aligner as I don't have one and I doubt Sam does either - any recommendations? Halfords one any good as I get trade and will have to drive past on the way to Sams lol?


Parts -

- New hub nuts
- Gearbox oil

Anything else I've overlooked??

Cheers
Tom

[C2K]

Front hub nuts are 35mm, although a 36mm will work. they are 325Nm torque if i recall, so be prepared with a big bar - borrow someone's 3/4 if you can and they'll come right off. A Snap-on 18V gun would have them off but can't speak for anything else non-pneumatic.

It's a straightforward job to do, just be methodical - think the job through first and assess what are the real risks that things could go wrong.

Make sure you have spare driveshaft seals in case you damage one. Gearbox oil is easier to put in the top rather than through the filler hole. Change thelittle white bushes on the clutch fork, they're 99p each and are one of the causes of a heavy clutch. Clutch alignment can be done with a ratchet handle or similar, you're only looking to line the clutch spline up with the flywheel hole. If you've not done one before it's not uncommon to have to stick your hand in the hole and spin the shaft a little if the splines don't engage.

DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE THRUST BEARING ON THE FORK. There is a fairly thorough n00bs guide on 306.net.

[Toms306]

Oh, that could be an issue....my torque wrench only goes up to 300Nm...........will be ok to do to 300 and drive to the garage round the corner and ask if they'll just torque them up for us though I'd imagine?

Also, will have to see if sam's got a big enough socket then. My wrench is mains powered and claims to have 450Nm of torque......I guess that means it has the torque to remove anything less tight than that? So should be fine.

Got a part number for those white bushes? And yeah will get some seals too...........as I lost half my gearbox oil from the 1.4 due to a faulty seal when the 'box was changed!!

I have done a clutch before, but only on a standalone engine, so quite a bit different from doing it on the car lol.

Will take a look at that guide then.....

Edit - My CS has run out so I cant see the guide over there.

[C2K]

2175 21 and 20 are the little white bushes. Should be like £3 total or whatever.

Just torque them to 300 and give them a nip extra.

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Can you see this page?
http://www.theywhoshallnotbenamed/forum/...o-Guide%29

[Eeyore]

i thought this was a post i made ages ago but forgot! Cheers for taking charge tom. Just keep track of what its costing me so i can pay you back!

Could you also pick me up some hockey trim clips? and... if you can some xsara mist jets.... however you may have to go to Citroen for those so dw if youre not going past! (6438v8)

[Toms306]

Citroën is on the way to yours lol, its on your side if the orwell bridge.....Peugeot is completely opposite.....wonder if they use the same part numbers, save me going up to Pug.....

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And cheers c2k but I can't see that... ' Toms306, You are trying to view a section that requires you to purchase the Community Supporter package'

[Eeyore]

i think it was dec who paid for his .net account just before 306oc started so maybe he can see it and copy pasta it here!?

[Jonny81191]

This is the one from .net, big thanks to Tenson for posting it up!



I recently changed the clutch on my HDI and took some pictures along the way so thought I would share them in the hope it helps others.

First you need to watch the video from DarrenJLobb on youtube, and then these pics should help fill in a few of the blanks.

http://www.youtube.com/user/darrenjl.../3/znGv4LlTYTY

http://www.youtube.com/user/darrenjl...13/5hQjA6KGQts



First of all you need to take the wheels off, and pry the ball-joint shaft from the bottom of the hub. This separates the wish-bone and the hub allowing the hub to be pulled on, taking the drive-shafts out of the gearbox. The ideal tool is a ball-joint separator which I only managed to locate later on in the job! So, for this I used a big bar. hammered between the hub and wishbone and levered them apart. Be careful not to slice the rubber gaiter on the ball joint. To take the bolt out that clamps down on the ball-joint, you need to un-do the nut and then just hit the bolt out with a hammer. It's not threaded in there.





Now you need to drain the transmission oil. There is a sump plug under the gearbox on the passenger side of the car. Take that out and collect the oil. To make the flow smoother, yo can also remove the filling plug on the side of the gearbox pictured here just to the left of the picture center where the nice clean outline is from the missing nut and washer. The bigger hole spot on in the pictures center is where the passenger side drive shaft comes out next.



So now, you can pull on the passenger side wheel-hub and drive shaft to get it to come out the gearbox like this.



Next, go to the drivers side, and it's worth checking that your clutch cable isn't rubbing on the CV boot of the drive shaft like mine was! There is a holder the cable should clip in.



Before the drivers side drive shaft can be pulled out, two bolts that hold the shaft in to a support ring with bearings in it, need to be undone. These are the ones Darren talks about needing to turn 90degrees in his video. I found they need to be un-done nearly all the way, and then the bolts push out towards the drivers side and turn, which allows the drive shaft to pull out of the support ring. I never did get the shaft right out of the gearbox on this side, so I just left it pulled out as much as possible and then took the bell-housing off.



The starter motor also needs to be taken off, and once it's pulled away from the bell-housing should just sit there on top of the engine. Three bolts need to be un-done with an allen key.



To take the three gear linkages off the back of the gearbox was a bit tricky. The two smaller ones can probably just be pulled on, but the main big one needed the ball joint separator. I also needed to put a smaller open-ended spanner on the shaft first, so the ball joint separator had something to work against and not just slide down the shaft. Like this, it was easy.





Continued...

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When taking off all the electric cables, don't forget to un-do the bolt here and push the loom up a bit or it blocks the bell-housing sliding off.



Take the fly-wheel cover off and also the two bolts here to release that brake line.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169...tch/13.jpg

In Darren's video he says to remove the clutch lever with that pin, or it will block the bell-housing coming off, however that is not the case with the HDI. You can just ignore that lever, which is a good thing too as it doesn't come off! Before we take off the bell-housing and the mounting stud that supports it, jack up the engine under the sump.



Now very important, support the bell housing. I think the very best way to do this, is to tie a strong rope around the hole in the housing and the other end around a long, strong bit of wood across the engine bay. This way, it can hang from the wood and won't hit the floor. You can tighten it up by putting a big spanner between the rope and turning it.



Then take the engine mount apart, and you probably need a universal stud remover to get the stud out of the gearbox.



You can now un-do the bolts holding the bell housing on. From memory, there are three accessible from the top of the engine bay, and two more below. One on the bottom is an allen key type. One on top is a pain to get at, but it can be done by using an extension bar and utting the socket on the bolt head first, then sliding the extension bar and ratchet in to place.



We can now slide the bell-housing off. This took a good lot of effort, but it did come. It's probably easier if the drivers side drive shaft was taken right out first but in my case it wasn't. I needed to use a big pry bar to get it off the first couple of inches. Also, you will need to rotate the whole bell-housing anti-clockwise (standing on the passenger side as you would to man-handle the thing) as it comes off, so that the bottom of the gearbox can inch over the top of the sub-frame and the whole thing can move towards the passenger side giving room to access the clutch.

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And here's the rest.


The bolts around the pressure plate can then be un-done with a Torx-40 (IIRC) bit. I had to hold it in a set of mole-grips as there isn't room for a proper handle. Before doing that though, mark the relation of the pressure plate to the fly-wheel. Bit by bit, going around each bolt, the pressure can be taken off, and the plate will come off along with the friction disk.






The bearing also needs to come out, and is found sitting on the shaft in the bell-housing.



Bearing already removed.



To put the new friction disk in place, it needs to be perfectly aligned with the center of the fly-wheel. If, like me, you don't have a tool to do that, you should be able to make one from a socket or two. I found two 7-16th (IIRC) sockets. One fitted nicely in the fly-wheel and the other one fitted nicely in the center of the friction disk. I bolted them together through the middle and used it to align the disk while I was bolting the pressure plate on.





Make sure the pressure plate goes on in the correct way.



Don't forget to put the new bearing on the fork inside the bell housing. it just clips on to the fork.

Finally, put it all back together. It's probably difficult to get the bell-housing on again, but persistence is the key. Also you might get someone to wriggle the drivers side drive shaft to help it go in while you push the bell-housing. The best trick for me, once it was on far enough, was to squeeze a couple of the bolts in, so they could be used to pull it back together slowly while making sure all was in alignment.

I hope that helps and is clear!

[C2K]

I don't bother splitting the balljoints as they're prone to boot damage. I prefer to pull the wishbones from the subframe as it's easier to get them off.

[Chris_90]

Great Guide there! what clutch is that you have used? im on the look out for a new clutch whats the best one to get want it to handle stage 2 power but my budget is around £150-200max

[Toms306]

Yeah very good guide there, thanks to the OP and Jonny for posting it.

[Mr Whippy]

Great Guide there! what clutch is that you have used? im on the look out for a new clutch whats the best one to get want it to handle stage 2 power but my budget is around £150-200max

A good original will take 150bhp and 240-250lbft ok.

Not sure how long it'd last, probably depends on how hard you are with it.

Rob McD on the TDOC forum ran an LuK with ~ 270lbft and had small slip in 5th on the motorway and his lasted for well over a year like that...

If you want 270lbft+, being able to drive it hard, and have it last a good while, then you'll probably be at the top of your £200 budget + a bit more!

I ran 285lbft or so on my Sachs paddle which went in with a new OEM Valeo pressure plate/bearing. Total cost was about £275 all in but it ran fine for over 3yrs like that and lots of hard use.


I think there is a Sachs kit you can get that is just upgraded friction and pressure plate combo... Does Chris Bell on Pug306 run one? They are for a Berlingo van iirc, can't remember... about £200 ish?

That seems like the best bet but not sure how long they last etc...



I hate clutch changes on these cars though. It's the hardest bit of an FMIC project but almost essential even if just to fit a new OEM!

Whatever you put in there, best to put something good in that you don't need to touch ever again if you can help it

Dave

[Toms306]

I hate clutch changes on these cars though. It's the hardest bit of an FMIC project but almost essential even if just to fit a new OEM!

Seems to be the same with any car though, I know with my golf it's got more to give but the clutch/DMF wouldn't take it....and of course it's the most expensive as well as the most difficult part of the project too. :/

[Eeyore]

that guide seems pretty comprehensive! Hope it all goes well now!

[Eeyore]

hello! right today we got it on stands, wheels off. passenger shaft out but couldnt get the drivers shaft out! The bearing with the two bolts you need to turn 90 degrees just wouldnt pull out! And 90 degrees from what? Once youve undone the bolts surely the bolt has already moved so.... is that 90 from its current position or 90 from its original postion! We spent ages doing it and eventually we ran out of time!

[C2K]

Imagine the bolts are hockey stick shaped. When they're in, the L of the stick is engaged as a captive measure for the long shaft intermediate bearing. With the nut cracked, you'll notice you can't rotate the stick at all. As the nut reaches the end of the thread and the stud becomes loose, push the stud to move the free length towards the drivers side to disengage the little hockey stick head, and you'll notice you can rotate it now - if you can't you've not gone far enough (don't take it off as you will cause yourself grief lol). Once you can rotate it, physically watch yourself rotate it 180 degrees from the starting postion and repeat for the 2nd one and hey presto the shaft will disengage.

Reverse to reassemble.

Mine was still quite stubborn, I hooked all my socket extensions together with a small blunt allen key socket on the end so it stuck out the passenger arch. One short, sweet thump with a hammer and hey presto, shaft out.

[Toms306]

Yeah I'm sure we undone then as they were both turning....maybe it just needed a better whack lol.....

Unfortunately we didn't have a big hammer! Only a small pin hammer we found lol.

[Eeyore]

Yeah I'm sure we undone then as they were both turning....maybe it just needed a better whack lol.....

Unfortunately we didn't have a big hammer! Only a small pin hammer we found lol.

I reckon we just somehow never got them in the right position even though we spent at least an hour trying to do it. I think we should probably do them back up and the do the above exactly.

[Toms306]

Yup, go on then, that shaft better be out by the next time I come over.

[samass]

Yup, go on then, that shaft better be out by the next time I come over.

GIGGITY!

[Poodle]

Sam, when did you last have the shaft out? On the cabby we eventually had to take the lower engine mount out with the shaft still in, then spend 15 minutes beating it with a sledge while two of my mates stood on it to keep it still, was the only way we could do it. Just chuck lots of breaking fluid on the joins and beat the hell out of it with the biggest hammer you can find and a suitable drift.

[DaveW]

Mine was seized in, took me over an hour trying to work out how to get it out, hitting it/leaving it to soak in plus gas/bit of heat, it will come out its just you cant get a good swing at it, i put bit of copper grease on it when i put it back in

[Toms306]

I said peugeots are always bloody seized and rusty and people were defending them lol.....


Poodle, Sams recently picked up this hdi so we have no idea when or even if the shafts been out before.


Again, a simple job on any other car being made difficult by Peugeot!

[Poodle]

How is this any different to other FWD cars? Things seize on cars, Tom, grow a pair and stop whining.

[Eeyore]

How is this any different to other FWD cars? Things seize on cars, Tom, grow a pair and stop whining.

tom is well aware that things become seized when not used... this is why he lubricates his tool every once in a while1

[Poodle]

Repped!

[Toms306]

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!

Sam's watching some horses in London today........and I've been at his Nans trying to fix the HDi lol.

Brought some man tools with me this time -



Bit of a hammering and a good tug got the 'shaft out.



Popped the linkages off -



Took off all the other pipe/wire clips BUT then got to the starter motor bolts........not enough room for my ratchet!



So couldn't get that off and thats where I've left it for today -




So I beleive the next steps are - Starter off, gearbox mount off, gearbox earth off (under the mount) then just the bellhousing bolts and the 'box should slide out right!?

[Poodle]

Why are you guys doing this job in half-hour segments..? Just curious...

[DaveW]

Try a decent allen key with mole grips on the end of it.

[Toms306]

Why are you guys doing this job in half-hour segments..? Just curious...

Mainly because it's 45mins from my house, so when I find we don't have the appropriate tool (like a hammer last time, or an extension for the ratchet to get the starter bolts out this time) we have to call it a day......I'm not wasting a fiver or so in diesel and an hour and a half just to pick up a tool lol.

And also because we have to try and fit it in around Sam's work and speedboat and my 'work' as well........ Theres not a huge amount of motivation with it tbh, it's a 'spare' car, that no-one needs to use, so its not top priority really.

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Try a decent allen key with mole grips on the end of it.

Tried an allen bit, mole grips slipped off every time, them starter bolts are in damn tight lol. If I'd had the correct size allan key it wouldn't have been an issue tbh.