Intercooler Sizes?

[JTaylor2005]

Hey all.

What sort of size intercooler am I able to fit without cutting anything? I can get a twin pass one tbf.
I don't mind cutting the bumper really but I don't fancy cutting all the metal frame on the front of the car.

I know I need this piece. ( well the bit that bolts onto the manifold)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-406-2-...259d0e4d83

Then do I use this pipe to root the pipe under the car from the turbo to the bottom of the intercooler? Is that what this bit does :S 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C5-2-2...2c932d7b44

Then could I use this pipe to run the pipe over the top of the engine? (I presume most people are using the bottom intake on a twin pass for the turbo side and the top as the outlet to the intake on the engine?)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/peugeot-406-2-...259cf7c242

Thanks, Jack

[Poodle]

Have a look in the guide section, loads of info in there that answers your questions, should be plenty of pics as well to help you identify what you need.

[JTaylor2005]

Yeah but that only shows you how to do it one way. I am wondering if there is a different setup that I can create that keeps it more of a stock look really. I like my stuff hidden and un-obvious. I want to use as much stock sort of pipe work, the aluminium/steel pipes are going to be sprayed satin black and so is the intercooler haha.

[Midnightclub]

If you want to use OEM stuff... 406 110 HDi top pipe, 2.2 HDi C5 lower turbo pipe/406 110 HDi turbo pipe (although it's got a super tight kink) keep the stock airbox and then loop under the airbox to the pipes by the rad, would work for single and twin pass coolers. It's basically what we did with ours looks 100% OEM opening the bonnet if you didn't know what to look for.

Essentially the bits you've linked, except the C5 pipe you posted is correct. You want the one on  the right in this picture (that's the 406 one, C5 one is better) 

[JTaylor2005]

Yeahh thats what I was after thanks for all that
And yeah I know the kink doesn't look great but for now im only going to stage 1 but trying to make it as un-smokey as possible so getting a good cold air feed will hopefully help And then also give me the chance to go up to a stage 2 when I want to

Thanks for that

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Is this the C5 pipe that I am looking for to loop under the engine? Cheers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C5-MK1...3a9c7e2957

[Poodle]

That's the wrong pipe, it looks like the one that brings the pipe out by the inlet elbow. You want the one on the right that midnightclub has posted the picture of. You can do it all with oem pipes, it just won't fit very well because they're all made for the larger 406/c5 engine bay. Best bet is probably to combine pipes from various oem intercoolers.

[JTaylor2005]

Does that one that he posted in the picture go over the top of the engine from the turbo outlet?

[Poodle]

No, the one you've posted does. The one midnightclub has posted goes underneath the engine.

[JTaylor2005]

Im confused now. Doesn't out turbo outlet face upwards? So if I got this one? Which pipe is it that goes from the turbo outlet to the front near the intercooler and which side of the engine bay does it run to? :S

[Poodle]

Nope, turbo outlet points downwards towards the subframe.

Not sure which pipe you mean any more, so...:

The standard plastic boost pipe has a ~130 degree curve where it exits the turbo and points it up towards the inlet mani elbow, the 406/c5 (aka 110 hdi) lower boost pipe (hard black plastic in the picture posted by mnc) does a 90 degreeish curve, runs across then forwards between the sump and gearbox instead. You can fit a couple of 90 degree pipes and a short straight on to bring it to either side on the rad, ns is easier.

The standard inlet mani elbow points down to meet the standard boost pipe, the 110 hdi inlet mani elbow (metal one in the pic) points forwards.

The black rubber pipe in the same pic runs from the 110 hdi inlet elbow and points down towards the ns chassis leg where you can connect a 90 degree bend down the side of the radiator onto an intercooler.

The pipe you posted is an inlet pipe, not a boost pipe.

[JTaylor2005]

Ahhh I see it now Cheers for that very helpful

[Poodle]

No problem.

I must take some pictures of stuff like this, the question is always asked, but i never remember when i've got the opportunity.

[JTaylor2005]

Yeah when I get round to doing this I will try get some photos. Don't know when that will be but I will try to remember haha I have always liked the stealthy install sort of look

[JTaylor2005]

This may sound strange but once I have an intercooler fitted is there any reason why I can't just remap the car to a stage 1 as thuough it was the 110hp one and just get 145hp? I know I will need to raise the boost a bit but thats not too difficult.

Cheers

[Poodle]

It'll have to be a heavy stage 1 to get that much power out of it, but yes. That's effectively what i had before i took mine off the road, have a look in the eurotrip thread from this may for an idea of how it goes fully loaded lol. The turbo was knackered, but then the chasing car is a gti with a minor misfire below 4k lol.

[JTaylor2005]

Well I was just working on the basis that the only real difference between the 90hp and 110hp is the fact the 110 has an intercooler. If I put an intercooler on then shouldnt I be able to map it like this?
http://hdi-tuning.co.uk/ecu-remapping/cu...DI110.html

[Poodle]

Sorry i missed the bit where you said remapping it like it was a 110 HDi. The 110 has a vacuum controlled wastegate actuator, rather than the boost can that's on the 90, so that wouldn't work. If i was you i'd just give Steve at HDi-tuning a shout and discuss exactly what you want from the map, he'll be able to provide something tailored to your needs.

[JTaylor2005]

But apart from that they are the same like so just getting a boost controller would basically do the job of the vacuum one?

[Poodle]

No it'd do the job of a boost one, hence why it's called a boost can... I get the feeling i'm missing something here, what do you hope to achieve by mapping it like a 110? It's just going to make things more complicated for you.

[JTaylor2005]

What I am getting at is that other than the intercooler that is on the 110hp version of this engine. There isn't really much difference. The boost is controlled differently and is presumably higher on the 110 model?

Now with the intercooler fitted and the boost raised to match the 110hp model then theoretically I could get it mapped to the same sort of performance that a 110 model achieves on stage 1 which is 145hp ish.

Sorry if I have explained badly. It might not make sense to people that aren't in my trail of thought haha.

[mr_fish]

2.0 HDi with an intercooler and slightly raised boost will probably push 150-160hp

Have a look here: http://306oc.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=15619

Rolling road figures and their specs.

[JTaylor2005]

This won't be an fantastic intercooler setup though just a nice stealthy one I will have a good exhaust done as soon as its on the road though and yeah I was looking at that but would almost certainly need a new good clutch

[Poodle]

Have a look at the guide section mate, you want the thread about stage 2 on hdis. What you're describing is just known as stage 2. As said before, if you don't want to have to sort out a new clutch to cope with the torque, talk with Steve or mapper of your choice to discuss what you want.

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I found one of each of the lower pipes in my garage last night by the way, drop us a pm if you're interested.

[allanallen]

Whys the c5 lower pipe better? I've just fitted a 406 one to mine and other than the god awful angle where it attaches to the turbo, fittment seems pretty good.
I am a little concerned about clearance on the subframe when the engine goes back in the car but I've been assured it fits!

[Poodle]

The c5 pipe is meant to be better because it doesn't have that kink. In reality i don't think the difference is noticeable.

[Midnightclub]

^ This, I had the C5 one but never bothered fitting it and sold it to someone else as the 406 pipe does the job well enough

[allanallen]

I thought it'd need the kink to clear the subframe.

[Midnightclub]

If you use the C5 pipe, you use a 90 degree 42mm (iirc?) long legged silicon to make up the angles

[JTaylor2005]

IS this the 406 version of the same pipe?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/peugeot-406-2-...259cf7c211

[Poodle]

Nope, that's inlet piping again. The easiest way to identify inlet piping is the take-off for the oil breather.

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Can't find one on ebay for you, but the offer of the one/s in my garage is still open, £15 each.