CG clutch

[Frosty]

Got a bit of a strange 1 here. Basically i got my hands on a brand new CG clutch set up. I know a lot of people are against CG but it popped up at a decent price so i thought i would give it a go. Any way the other day i went about fitting it, I had a few other bits to do so i dropped the engine out. As the clutch set up was currently XUD style i swapped over the fly wheel and had a hdi gearbox to fit. Got the fly wheel on then bolted up the clutch and put gearbox on. I didn't think anything of it till i checked the nut was tight on the fuel pump and the cambelt didn't move at all as you would expect it to. So i tried turning the bottom pulley and it wouldn't go forwards. Went to turn it backwards and with a bit of force it did but only about quater of a turn. I thought that was strange so i tried the friction plate the other way round, a different gearbox and just the pressure plate bolted up and there was no difference. So i decided that the pressure plate must be the issue so for now it has a stand hdi clutch fitted and it turns over fine.

Just wondering if anyone else has come across an issue like this. I am going to ring CG on Monday to see what they say.

A few pics of the pressure plate and a few marks where it looks like it could be fouling inside part of the gearbox 

[Poodle]

Welcome to CG build quality. I know they've done stuff like riveting the friction plate on the wrong side and supplying the wrong release bearing before, could be something like that.

[Frosty]

Just spoke to CG and he is saying it is the right 1 for the car so it's a bit strange I'm having issues. I've sent them the pics but I'm not to hopeful

[Piggy]

What part is it catching on?? (on the box?)

[Dave]

Yeh not sure I'm quite following this, if the clutch was catching on the bell housing it wouldn't move quarter turn, looking at it can't see how that's possible. It should all turn over but if your clutch wasn't disengaging properly it should still turn over if you jack the wheels up/ not leave it in gear. Sure auto tensioner on the cable has adjusted up properly etc? Get a crow bar on the clutch arm see if it disengages then, not too forceful if it's wrong could bugger the clutch.

[darrenjlobb]

Welcome to CG build quality. I know they've done stuff like riveting the friction plate on the wrong side and supplying the wrong release bearing before, could be something like that.

I dont know what your issues with CG are, but you should really pipe down running them down on this forum....Its not really fair on any company .... There cheap clutchs, but me, and many others have had great luck with them,  so i dont feel its fair to give them that impression at all..

Anyway back on topic,  I dont mean this to sound like im doubting you Frosty as i know your a top mechanic, but I dont THINK those marks have been caused from it fouling...or at least, id say maybe more installation of the gearbox going on etc...there should be plenty of clearance around that area on any BE box....

Seems odd that it wont turn, you sure it was in neutral right? (likely stupid question!) Did it sound like a metallic "knock" each time it "jammed" or just a soft dud / tight spot?

[mr_fish]

I was there the first time Frosty was fitting the gearbox back on the engine.

So the engine was out on the floor. Gearbox fitted in the usual way with a couple bolts. then ratchet and socket on the crank pulley to turn it over.

It went over, as said, a quarter of a turn then stopped solid. Go back a bit and again stops solid.

To repeat what was said above, we swapped the gearbox for another HDi one and they were in neutral.

I wasn't there when the stock HDi clutch was fitted.

Would of been good to have a couple photos of the CG and Stock pressure plate side-by-side.

[darrenjlobb]

Could you not here where it was knocking when it stopped dead? IE could you hear it knock in bellhousing? seems very odd situation...

[mr_fish]

You could feel something 'tap/thud' the box through your hands.

Couldn't really see inside, unfortunately it doesn't have the window in the front some BE boxes have for the hydro fork.

[Frosty]

Mark has pretty much summed it up as he has said he was there when i was cussing and swearing at it as its something so simple.

I dont think it really made a noise it just seemed to get jammed as such. When it does stop it takes a certain about of force to swing it back over the other way.

I will hopefully get my spare engine out and use it as a tester with the clutch and maybe try and sort some sort of video to hopefully help this all make sense a bit more. Its quite a hard thing to explain as it sounds so stupid.

[Poodle]

Welcome to CG build quality. I know they've done stuff like riveting the friction plate on the wrong side and supplying the wrong release bearing before, could be something like that.

I dont know what your issues with CG are, but you should really pipe down running them down on this forum....Its not really fair on any company .... There cheap clutchs, but me, and many others have had great luck with them,  so i dont feel its fair to give them that impression at all..

Anyway back on topic,  I dont mean this to sound like im doubting you Frosty as i know your a top mechanic, but I dont THINK those marks have been caused from it fouling...or at least, id say maybe more installation of the gearbox going on etc...there should be plenty of clearance around that area on any BE box....

Seems odd that it wont turn, you sure it was in neutral right? (likely stupid question!) Did it sound like a metallic "knock" each time it "jammed" or just a soft dud / tight spot?

My issues with CG are simple: 50% of the people who buy them then post on here have serious problems. I guess you don't read the forum much as you seem to support I'm entitled to my opinion and this is a public forum, so kindly don't tell me to pipe down without good reason. Personally i don't like to let people run into problems with them without reasonable warning, obviously that's wrong in your eyes, so my apologies for upsetting you, but i'm  not going to stop doing it just in case i offend you, sorry love. If they don't want me reporting their quality control issues they'll sort them out, won't they.

I won't post in here again, sorry for the OT frosty.

[darrenjlobb]

Who else do you know who has had issues with a CG clutch that isn't caused by user error? I'm genuinely interested...tell us about the 50% with issues .....I know of a dozen of these units fitted, and have used 4-5 myself, with 0% issue rates...but obviously I must have missed 50% of users having problems!

[Paul_13]

Me
splines on friction plate completely f*cked. How that passed quality control I have no idea



They've sent a replacement out, after they accused me of lying and not knowing how to fit a clutch. I got very shitty with him on the phone and he finally f*cking listened

[Jonny81191]

The release bearing on mine that everyone said sounded knackered and a few members assured me was just the noise a paddle clutch makes and as such I ignored.. less than 6k of use and it had completely failed, along with the friction plate scoring the flywheel and wearing out. Admittedly it held power till the very end, but it wasn't anything like the mileage I was expecting.

[darrenjlobb]

Was the release bearing or pressure plate anything to do with CG? All the ones Ive bought have come with a stock sachs / valeo units...

Its a paddle clutch, I think people tend to forget WHAT a paddle clutch is...its a serious clutch, its NOT designed for daily driving, daily driving / traffic clutch slip WILL ruin any paddle clutch, there designed for hard driving / track, why do you think paddle clutchs are sold in general for "track use only"...Excessive slipping paddles will result in friction material on the flywheel / pressure plate on any clutch, not just CG, there not meant for this...

End of the day I have no reason to support CG any more than anyone else, its nothing to do with me, but I have ran these clutchs in all of my DT builds, my V6 audi, the 205 I built with vnt, and many more projects, and have several friends who have used these units, and im yet to encounter an issue...and I've given them death...Given what these things cost, I really dont see how you can complain, unless of course it dosnt fit (like this potential issue) or something catastrophic fails which ISNT caused by the user / fitter (which it normally is!)

These clutchs are SO cheap for what you get, every company makes odd mistakes / sends incorrect items, and from what ive personally seen, CG are just that...Esp for such a cheap product.

Paul_13, what was with that plate, did you try to fit it at all? As to me that looks like a typical plate that someone has fitted and not aligned and then tried ragging the box on....I can understand how they might have questioned the return of that, given that looks exactly like what has happened there!

[Paul_13]

I received it brand new in the box like that.
I had a cut off input shaft for a clutch alignment tool and it would not fit through at all.
The splines were incorrectly machined

[darrenjlobb]

I received it brand new in the box like that.
I had a cut off input shaft for a clutch alignment tool and it would not fit through at all.
The splines were incorrectly machined

Well in that case thats fair enough, Id say you have been sent a clutch someone else has tried fitting / returned...as that looks 100% like a fitting f*ck up, have seen it first hand more than once! As long as you got a replacement I guess all is well, I have generally found them pretty easy to deal with...

[Seb_Ryan]

I havent long removed one from my alfa after it started slipping.. Was unsprung, and lasted 40k according to service history

[Paul_13]

It's not a fitting f*ck up mate. It's a machining problem. The splines were not properly machined around the top, this wasn't caused by some one smashing the box on

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I tried fitting the input shaft from the back and it would only go half way if that

I've had the same problem on a 1.9 mi16 clutch before where the splines weren't machined properly

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[Jonny81191]

Was the release bearing or pressure plate anything to do with CG? All the ones Ive bought have come with a stock sachs / valeo units...

Its a paddle clutch, I think people tend to forget WHAT a paddle clutch is...its a serious clutch, its NOT designed for daily driving, daily driving / traffic clutch slip WILL ruin any paddle clutch, there designed for hard driving / track, why do you think paddle clutchs are sold in general for "track use only"...Excessive slipping paddles will result in friction material on the flywheel / pressure plate on any clutch, not just CG, there not meant for this...

It was an uprated pressure plate, that's for sure. Anyone who drove it commented on how much heavier the pedal was. I understand what you're saying, however the way I drove it for most of the time it was fitted I might as well of been on track

I think what I would say after having run one is that next time I'll be going for at least a 5 paddle sprung centre, if not a dual friction setup. I'm sure I expected a bit much from a full race unit but as I say, I didn't exactly spend much time trying to be gentle with it!

I've no real issue with CG themselves but you have to admit there seems to be a lot more horror stories concerned with them against anyone else. Maybe that's because they're cheaper and more people buy them and so we hear a lot more failure stories due to their popularity. But the other side of that is examples where someone buys a CG and it's an OMP unit with CG scribbled on in crayon, yet other times it seems to be a custom made unit.. Doesn't inspire confidence when there seems to be such a variation of quality, manufacturers and what you get in the box in terms of pressure plate etc.. And in the case of Frosty's issue here it seems that there's a major issue with the fitment of the unit 

[Frosty]

I have had an issue with a CG clutch in the past but i cant be 100% i had that in the right way so i aint going to slate them as it could have been my fault but i wasn't to keen on getting another off them but then this 1 popped up brand new at a decent price i thought i will give it a shot. Even with this issue i think it must just be something stupid. Though im a bit annoyed i emailed them the pics yesterday and haven't heard anything back so i will give them another call.

But any way as if by luck i got a 306 hdi in work that i just put a clutch in so i took the chance to take a few pics of the pressure plates next to each other. In 1 of the pics you can clearly see 1 bit on the CG is higher than the other 1. Anyone know what the score is with the CG pressure plates, are they any different to standard 1s? I know they have the grooves in them but do they just do that themselves to a standard 1? Maybe something i will ask when i phone them.

Anyway some pics

[darrenjlobb]

Have you had a look inside the bell housing Frosty of a hdi box to see what it could be catching on?

[Frosty]

No not yet, i need to try and get it bolted up to my spare engine this week and see if i can see whats going on. I didn't really have to much of a look when i was doing it on the estate engine as i was busy getting angry and just bolted it back with a standard clutch. Like you have said though i would think there should be a decent about of clearance inside the gearbox, just a bit hard to see

[Piggy]

Usual story that we only hear the bad...you don't get threads saying how amazing the have been etc

[HDi--Power]

To be fair even though I use a CG clutch they are quite a shocking company. I have a few friction plates of theirs with snapped center springs because they just take a stock valeo unit, machine 3 grooves into the pressure plate and rivet on their paddle material to an otherwise stock clutch centre plate and then sell it for a very nice markup! They do work, my current one is fine for the moment but quality they are not and certainly not well designed for paddle use or abuse.

Although it really doesnt look like a clutch issue in this case, more a fitment error or similar

[Frosty]

To be fair even though I use a CG clutch they are quite a shocking company. I have a few friction plates of theirs with snapped center springs because they just take a stock valeo unit, machine 3 grooves into the pressure plate and rivet on their paddle material to an otherwise stock clutch centre plate and then sell it for a very nice markup! They do work, my current one is fine for the moment but quality they are not and certainly not well designed for paddle use or abuse.

Although it really doesnt look like a clutch issue in this case, more a fitment error or similar

How can it be a fitment issue when i bolt up a standard unit and its fine?

[HDi--Power]

Its hard to say without seeing it, but CG only use OEM pressure plates and it does look like the correct plate, just compared the pic to one I have here and they look identical. Its down to you to figure it out

[Jimbo]

You cant measure his and yours though, so saying they are identical is complete nonsense

My thoughts are a standard clutch fits and works theres does not its as simple as that. Its something to do with their clutch at fault.
Possibly they have sent one for a different car. Unlikely though as it physically bolts up.never dealt with cg so im not in any way biased here.

[James]

I've got a CG on my DT, no issues yet prob done around 5k miles.

Don't drive like a tool and ride/ abuse clutch tho

Only commenting as I'm just about to purchase another for my bx!

Interested to find out where frostys is snagging!

[Jimbo]

As far as im aware he has found out the issue
Sure he'll post in due course