205 Hdi

[pugtk]

Why do you need a 306 subframe to mount a hdi engine?

Should bolt up to a 205 turbo diesel/gti subframe.

As for the uj, Ive just used a square drive from a 205 to fit my 306 p/s rack this evening. Fits perfectly

As for the subframe welding, I would send any serious parts of welding to a fabrication shop/engineering shop.

[dieselgeek]

For the many critics on the bandwagon out there, dissapointingly you are not paying any attention to the words in the thread, you've just looked at the pictures.


Firstly the steering collumn UJ, I clearly said in the post that it doesn't protude far enough and that I will rectify it. If your trying to say I've not noticed this or got it wrong then this proves blatently that you havn't read the post that goes with the picture. Read the words!



Welding. There is full penetration, I was watched by a coded welder at the time, not someone on a forum with a cheap welder but a professional who has a good career and is good at what he does. In his words 'it looks f*cking awful but its one piece now'. The fact that its ugly over the top is irrelevant - if you did know about welding you'd know that you can't tell anything about penetration from a photo as you werent there to see it form.
If you took a beautiful tig weld and layed a thin line of arc spatter over it and took a picture it would look like a bad weld, but underneath the tig weld would still be perfect. This is obvious stuff, you can't see through metal.

I've been welding for nearly 10 years, I learnt using arc on plant equipment, I am not gentle, I know penetration. The wire feed was 7/10 and power was on full setting, I was worried that I had obliterated the thin steel but was told and shown thats how it has to be done to ensure good fusion. The beads stick out too far because I layed in too much, by this point it was already welded and I was just wasting wire by being too far away and too slow.
I did work from various points to avoid warping, I've done sills plenty of times (using arc - yes its awful for car panels and takes patience) so know this technique.


Next point. Its a seam weld your talking about, that part is already spot welded on by Peugeot at the factory so even if my weld did nothing then its still as strong as it was orginally made.
This is all clearly described in my post which you shouldve bothered to read!

You can only be talking about the seam weld because the other welding isn't visible, as its behind the layers that I tried to build up to smooth the section, before realising I'd never get it smooth and resorting to filler.
Once again this is very clearly described in the post which you shouldve bothered to read!

Next and possibly most important, its bolted on the original mounts to the body!! Even if the welding was just bad decoration then it still uses the original mounts that were made at the factory.
Again this is clearly described in the post which you shouldve bothered to read!

For all these reasons there is no way the subframe could ever 'fall off' or be dangerous is any way. It uses the original mounts, whether you think its strengthened or not by the welding is irrelevant its still as strong as Peugeot made it.

Its really dissapointing that you've come out with all this stuff that so obviously shows you havn't read the description to see what I've done, I thought this was a forum not a picture book for trolls. Grow up and read it before you spout your opinion.

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Why do you need a 306 subframe to mount a hdi engine?

Should bolt up to a 205 turbo diesel/gti subframe.

As for the uj, Ive just used a square drive from a 205 to fit my 306 p/s rack this evening. Fits perfectly

As for the subframe welding, I would send any serious parts of welding to a fabrication shop/engineering shop.

My 205 end is a spline, not a square drive.

As for the subframe, I chose to do it that way so as to avoid replacing components such as hubs/shafts/brakes to deal with the increased torque. I've also done the entire loom from auto wipers to abs, and the beam.
This way I get a rebodied 306 rather than an uprated 205, as mentioned earlier in the thread. If you wanted to just do the engine swap then uberderv has a very nice example of that, theres a link to his build earlier in this thread.

Subframe welding, didn't take it too a professional because I know 2 coded welders and had 1 watch me do it and then the other (my brother) looked at it and laughed but confirmed it as good. Plus Ive been welding on farms for years, I'm confident with my welding fusion even though my mig is ugly (better with arc but learning to upgrade)

[pugtk]

Mine uj was also splined but I changed it to a square drive from a 205.

A 306 square uj should work also.

Unless the rack is in a different place due to the modified subframe.

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What modifications did you do to the back axle?

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Dimma wide kit might be the way to go to cover up those wheels

You used to be able to get a fibreglass replica kit on ebay, unsure if its still made though

[dieselgeek]

Mine uj was also splined but I changed it to a square drive from a 205.

A 306 square uj should work also.

Unless the rack is in a different place due to the modified subframe.

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What modifications did you do to the back axle?

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Dimma wide kit might be the way to go to cover up those wheels

You used to be able to get a fibreglass replica kit on ebay, unsure if its still made though

All the sections on my 205 steering column were splined, as was the male end on the rack, parts bin stuff I suppose they just fitted what they had at the time.
It does use the 306 square UJ, with the standard spline connection to the column. The end uj is actually only a few mm short of the standard clamping length, the photo foreshortens it slightly making it look worse.

I'll get round to making it oem but its genuinely fine, I'll explain why although I'm sure critics will not like it (or bother reading it):


The amount of force on the steering column is very low due to the power steering. The force is only a few Nm even when hitting hard bumps during cornering.
I've seen plenty of datalogging with this information so I'm not just guessing, forces range from a static 5Nm to 15Nm in absolute extreme circumstances)
Manufacturers have a minimum industry standard strength requirement of around 250Nm maximum, even if I have lost 20% of the absolute strength then it could still potentially take over 200Nm.
The maximum force a driver can put into a steering wheel is around 80Nm, so any force transmitted from the wheels that could damage the steering column would rip the wheel out of the drivers hands well before that force could be achieved and so the force required to break the system could never be achieved during driving (a force needs an equal and opposite force or it can't occur).
This a a basic safety feature thats been designed into cars for a long time, what I've done by having only 80% of the clamping section used does not come close to the tolerances of these safety features.



No mods to the back axle (except its a reconditioned beam built from 2 old ones and some new parts, lowered and fitted with uprated dampers). The active steering mounts were replaced with solid mounts which account for the bolt holes being a few mm out, it uses the standard bolts and 6 nuts inside the car with all the standard holes.


Really don't want a dimma kit, was supposed to look fairly standard, even down to having steel wheels with Pug wheel trims..

[cheesegrater]

I have a strange feeling after reading all of this that you're solving problems that don't need to be solved. I feel uneasy about all that metal in your door as well as everyone else's concerns.

[Piggy]

Still confused about all the effort when you could have jist dropped the hdi lump in on the standard mounts and fitted some gti brakes and struts and had it done.

[Niall]

I have a strange feeling after reading all of this that you're solving problems that don't need to be solved.  I feel uneasy about all that metal in your door as well as everyone else's concerns.

Tom you've made me reread all of this to see the door "protection"
That is quite worrying!

I'm also quite concerned that you're trying to retrofit airbags! They are a very delicately engineered system to work and not work when they should. You can't just slap sensors in and airbags in here and there and expect the system to function correctly in a crash.

Also,
[attachment=20886]

Sorry but what the f*ck is that? My pet hate is bad wiring especially when it would of taken less time to do that correctly! That's an advert for short circuits and corrosion if I've ever seen one!
I will say this again (although I don't think you will listen to me). People are critisisng your work not because they like to but because there is blatant safety issues here. There is a lot of VERY knowledgeable people here who have offered sound advice and raised their concerns. Take some advice man. There's no shame in doing so and admitting you're wrong if you are

[Atterz]

Errrrrrm, tidy butt. :/

[welshpug]

if youve welded like that for ten years then youve got ten years of shit welds about

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hubs etc on a 1.9 205 are the same as early 306, 205 wishbones move less than 306, no issues there with stuff not being strong enough.

basically its a deathtrap built by a deluded fool.

[Paul_13]

basically its a deathtrap built by a deluded fool.

Nail on the head

[procta]

mind dieselgeek, you may have to put this through a check. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/indi...e-approval
As with you heavily modifying the chassis to fit 306 bits. I maybe wrong as I don't know how plug in play some of the 306 stuff is compared to the 205.
Wiring side, id be seeing if can add better connectors on, ok for the min for testing purposes. But its miles better dropping on proper connectors, and in fact quite fun to do!

[darrenjlobb]

No one who has been welding for 10 years could lay down beads like that, I cant believe your even being serious / trying to defend it, like are you ACTUALLY for real?!! If you need an example of MIG welding, I can easily find a photo from my cummins project / audi project / 306 project...as I do 90% of my welding with a MIG, and none of it resembles that mess you posted before...dangerous, shocking, and shouldn't be on the road, end of... Covering it in goop so that SVA / MOT cant see it isnt fixing it, its just being even more dangerous and irresponsible..

For reference, I'm NOT a qualified / trained welder, I'm a farmer, but I know how to run a welder, so please listen to me.

Also that wiring, I had hoped to GOD for anyone's sakes there all grounds...(I've figured any kind of cable colour code in this build is likely not occurring)....But I've a feeling there not..and that is just a fire / disaster waiting to happen...HOW can you take a photo of work like that and upload it? I counted 8 strands on one cable, 6 of which are broken / not even connected...

I'm genuinely being serious when I ask, ARE you for real with this?!

I must admit, im still confused why you haven't just dropped a hdi in a 205? I'm pretty confused why you need the entire subframe / steering setup....But I'm sure this has been explained in great detail previously :S..


Deary me

[Niall]

Also that wiring, I had hoped to GOD for anyone's sakes there all grounds...(I've figured any kind of cable colour code in this build is likely not occurring)....But I've a feeling there not..and that is just a fire / disaster waiting to happen...HOW can you take a photo of work like that and upload it? I counted 8 strands on one cable, 6 of which are broken / not even connected...

PSA use numeric coding on their cabling but some of their cars also have a colour code to go with the number but its anyones guess if it is matched or not. E.g Pink is quite often used as a switched live yet at the stereo connection, its yellow. Its a right PITA but it doesn't matter when you're going to have all the cables in that connector shorting out.

Oh and to the OP, please do feel free to discuss with me your wiring and termination in this photo

[darrenjlobb]

Theres no discussion to be had...we have broken cables, un secured cables, screws cross threaded, screws snapped, terminals mm's apart from each other, only discussion needed is rip it out and do it again.

Sorry im coming across so hard in here, but I just cant belive some of the stuff im seeing! And anyone knows me will know I know how to "radge" something up if required, but this is a new level / dangerous.

[Niall]

Oh I'm not trying to defend this at all. Just being nice i suppose and trying to give the guy a shred of credibility with the colour coding

[Piggy]

Haha, I didnt zoom in on that wiring...
That screw at that angle
And theres a strand on the white cable not even a mm away from the ground!! 

[darrenjlobb]

I love the solder also, was that a "crap, stripped threads, then snapped oversize screw, f*ck it, fill it with solder..

Sorry ill leave now

[andyyy]

My understanding of why it's on a 306 subframe etc is so as it will handle like a 306 rather than a 205. Personally I wouldn't of but it does kinda interest me to how it will handle when done. (assuming the subframe doesn't fall off when it goes round a corner or the steering rack) 



For the arches personally I'd do like my mate has done with his mini and make some completely custom one up put of sheet metal cut and rolled to suit welded on then filled to make smooth wouldnt Look bad if done right 
Similar to this - not his car but he's done nearly exactly the same 



Why has it even been put on chock block 


Theres flat blade connectors on that plug , female blade crimps could of been used and it would of taken half the time and not been a  fire hazard , and looked alright and no solder needed,  the other faults with the wiring have Been pointed out. 


Before you say I haven't read what you've said about it covering it up with tape and silicone is just another bodge 


And that weld has not penetrated and if you knew about welding a photo can tell slot,  if you had got enough heat into it 
1 it wouldn't look like pidgen sh*t 
2 I'm pretty sure it's would of melted atleast some of that underseal as it wasn't ground back very far 
3 it would of warped the panel if you ran the weld for that length 
4 you would of changed the colour of the steel around the weld it would of gone blueish from the heat 


I could go on but I doubt your going to listen 


I'm only saying how to do it because if you knew you wouldn't be doing things like how you are,  I strongly advise you listen to what everyone  has to say if not your only going to find out the hard way 

[cheesegrater]

I don't understand the retrofitting of rcl when 205's have a factory fitted option. Which is less, not completely, susceptible to spontaneous combustion. As Mei says, there's plenty of interchangeable parts that would completely remove alot of the questionable areas. Plus I think I'd rather a tweaked 205 geometry over a base 306. 

[Piggy]

Just to not completely beat this guy up over it...

Common English Law of Duty of Care comes in here. For all parties.

It applies to Dieselgeek to ensure the vehicle is safe and won't cause harm to others.

It also appliea to 'us', the forum observers as we have noted a potential danger to Dieselgeek, his passengers and other roads users. If we said nothing, we could be aeen as breaking the law and it is a prosecutable offence.

[Mattcheese31]

Just to not completely beat this guy up over it...

Common English Law of Duty of Care comes in here. For all parties.

It applies to Dieselgeek to ensure the vehicle is safe and won't cause harm to others.

It also appliea to 'us', the forum observers as we have noted a potential danger to Dieselgeek, his passengers and other roads users. If we said nothing, we could be aeen as breaking the law and it is a prosecutable offence.

are you real? . . . .

[1616six]

I never knew Dum-Dum had a brother?

[Grant]

Oh. My. f*cking. Days.





I can't believe you are even trying to defend some of those monstrosities. Don't ever take passengers in your car. You'll be facing jail time. 

[Piggy]

Mattcheese.

I am deadly serious.

Been to a 5hr training course in Chesham today on site safety and a section was on Duty of Care and the common law. I raised cars as an example and it would include this sort of thing.
If someone of knowledge or experience has noted something of danger and not made the relevant persons aware then if a person(s) were to be injured or killed as a consequence then those mentioned above who were aware but kept the concern to themself could be seen as partially liable.

[cully]

[attachment=20917]

[Mattcheese31]

Mattcheese.

I am deadly serious.

Been to a 5hr training course in Chesham today on site safety and a section was on Duty of Care and the common law. I raised cars as an example and it would include this sort of thing.
If someone of knowledge or experience has noted something of danger and not made the relevant persons aware then if a person(s) were to be injured or killed as a consequence then those mentioned above who were aware but kept the concern to themself could be seen as partially liable.

in a company setting fair enough, but on a public forum, me being liable for an accident for not mentioning something I chose not to, I think not lol..... The phase " sandwich short of a picnic " springs to mind

[allanallen]

WOW!

Could you please update your location so I can keep my family away from this death trap.

[Tom]

Hdi engine into 205 and be donee... Why all the leg work?

[Piggy]

@mattcheese. Obviously be impossible to prove anything on forums like this...but the principle applies.

[procta]

are HDi engines practically plug in play for the 205?