Bosch VE problem - please help !

[nominous]

I've got a problem with a Bosch VE on the Mrs Corsa.
This place has far too much Bosch knowledge to not ask the question.

Mean while, my plans for the 306 are on hold whilst I try to fix this.
I'm about a month behind plan now, with 5 cars on the drive and only one that works
I refuse to give in, but it is killing my patience...

Prior to the problem it was running fine. No problems.
She started it up one evening, sunny day, not too hot or cold, and it reved lumpy and the throttle did nothing but make it lumpier. ie: it wouldn't rev.
I checked the filters, the belt for slippage, swapped the lines to straight diesel tank and it was getting steadily worse each time I started her up. To the point where it then would just die straight after being started.

Stuck a vac pump on the return line and pulled some air through till it was clear, but it made no difference.

Remove the pump. Stripped it down.
Cleaned it. By god it was like the outside of a deep fat fryer inside of it.
I assumed the gov levers were sticking and not moving at all. It took serious scrubbing.

Back together, fully primed the low and high pressure sides on the bench then refitted it.
cock up on the max fuel screw and she started to run away. Blocked the air and no drama.
The good news is that I know the engine is reving just fine and injectors are not blocked.

Max fuel down to something more sensible and it's starting up fine.
But it wont rev.
The throttle does sod all. Doesn't change engine note one bit.
I've got the arm aligned exactly where it came off from and I've got a second pump I checked for reference (vaux too).
So it wont rev and thus wont go.

If I wind the max fuel screw in a little the revs rise.
Then to a point where they rise on their own which I imagine is on the point of run away ?


Any suggestions for what it might be for why the throttle is doing nothing?


I've had the pump apart many times now. All bits are cleaned like new and moving freely.
Certainly it can provide the fuel (max fuel screw issue) but just will not rev.
The obvious thing would be that I'm not pulling the gov levers, but the gov spring assembly was clipped back into the levers so must be pulling on them.
Before fitting the arm I tried turning the throttle arm stub and I got resistance thus must be connected.


What else should I look at?
Stumped
Please help !!
Or she'll end up with the 306 and I'll have to go buy another one...

[Paul_13]

Sounds like the governor had slipped out of its cradle
Happened to mine the other week.

[PartyJas]

i would be inclined to agree with that. Sounds like when the governor came out of the cradle in mine.

[nominous]

I know it's coming apart for the 4th time, but jesus, I'm getting sick of doing it

[Matt]

Yep I'd say it the gov cradle. I smashed mine while dicking about and had the same symptoms, wouldn't rev and wouldn't idle and increase the revs with the max fuel.

Could always raise the fuel to make it idle at 3k and mash it into gear, that works right?

[nominous]

Seems a fine line on raising the max fuel before it runs away.
Like seriously a gnats todger and she's on self destruct.

I'll check out the cradle.
I guess if I have screwed it, then it should just fall out when I take the top off teh pump.
If not. I'll swear greatly and then..... stuck.

[Uberderv]

I had the same problem after I resealed the pump. Even though I had measured/marked everything it wouldn't rev at all. Only by turning the max fuel screw in then adjusting the idle screw to lower the idle I finally got control of the bugger. Many small adjustments later and it's going great

[nominous]

Guv is fine. Sitting in the cradle.
the metering donut?? Is moving on the plunger when the lever moves after setting for fuel.
so im stumped.

pics and vid to follow once I get on laptop.

[nominous]

The guv'nors
Top one is from my pump, bottom is a reference one.
Looks fine ??




View of pump internals





GUV levers at rest then with the levers moved. Max fuel lever has been primed (wedged with a erm wedge...)




Copy of how the plunger is setup with the washers etc fitted - from spare pump, the one in use is immaculate.



The hole points back up towards the input shaft and away from the high presure head. I'm not sure on this. Didn't record it's position, but the spare pump was this way round.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&i...VJxVFRuZXc

Video begging for help ! - shows that the collar on the plunger is moving with the levers.

So Im stuck as to what the problem is

[Piggy]

Cant see any pics of the gov???

[nominous]

Should be top pic
They are hosted from google dive.
ITs' working for me and I logged out to test.
Should be 6 pics and 1 vid.

[Piggy]

I see it now.

Its when its attached that I be interested in.

Does look like it was very very gunked up at some stage

[nominous]

Thats the spare guv which is rusty like the spare plunger.

the pump. Now clean. Was a filthy as a five pound whore.
veg running.
I assumed the levers weren't moving.
It was like a a chip pan.
first time ive seen a pump that bad

but now its clean she all moves cleanly
still no worky tho

[Dave]

Do you twist the gov shaft that runs through the body so the slot doesn't allow it to jump out? The gov shouldn't be able to jump out if should need a twist to get it in an out and this its just done by setting the gov shaft down centre offset in relation to the slot it goes in.

[nominous]

Not sure I quite follow you Dave?

To assemble, I place the gov into the levers and then push the shaft through the top of the pump.
Then fit the top onto the main body.
The shaft rotates and I can feel that it is securely in the levers.

There is no chance of it coming out.
For this pump, it is impossible to remove the gov from the lever without taking the shaft out of the top of the pump first.
Spent ages trying it. No way. Has to be removed.
So it's also not possible for the gov to fall out of the lever during assembly.

I'm stumped. from what I can see the levers are moving and the gov is moving them, rotated by the gov shaft.
So why in the $^££$((%£" is it the throttle action doing nothing.
I'd think something wasn't back together correctly, but for the collar moving on the plunger by the lever as expected.

Only other thing I can think is that this:



Is the wrong way around ??
Should the hole be facing the head and not as pictured facing the cam plate.
Only that would mean less of the collar is likely to be covering the spill port on the plunger, so It'd think things would be worse.

It was how it is assembled in the spare pump, but no guarantee someone hasn't been in that pump and fscked it.
Noting that the spare pump didn't run the engine either.
Which I put down to it being rusty inside. Very rusty.

Other pictures of pump assembly I've seen on the net (and linked to from here) don't have enough detail to show that collar orientation...
Anyone got a pump in pieces and can verify ?

[Dave]

The gov can fall out of the levers during assembly, i've had it happen due to what I mentioned with govnor body shaft. Its unlikely that its happened consecutively with you but still possible. This is much more likely to happen if you dont have the splines lined up to start with, pushing the throttle the opposite way without the gov 'locked' into the levers will simply pop it out. Im on about where the govnor slips into the lever, theres a little elongated area on the govnor shaft to allow it to slip in, if you rotate this then the govnor cant pull out unless you 'twist' the govnor. Still sounds like something just isn't back together correctly, or your splines are not fully lined up to act on the levers.

That hole in the collar is in the correct orientation also.

When you say it wont rev, and thus, wont go, do you mean it literally wont start?

[nominous]

Literally wont start. Or didn't. it's now fixed. has been a for a while now, most of October, tho I've been very busy and not on teh forum.

I'm putting it down to not having teh splines correct and teh max fuel screw in teh wrong place.
Whilst I thought I had it all correctly marked, freaking out at the running away I've probably ballsed up somewhere and lost a mark.

Using logic AND the 306 pump as a reference, I got it all working again correctly.
Thanks for your help, but it just comes down to dumbness on my part.


The upside of doing this is it's saved me buggering about figuring out the inner workings of a VE pump on MY daily driver and I'm quite confident to start modding the 306 one, once I get a spare pump.

Scored a couple of winners on ebay last month, a sherpa mech pump (parts swapping) and a Renault and Passat electronic VE (the Renault has a 11mm head, the passat a 10mm, even if they don't work with the pug, I can make an 11mm hybrid for teh passat !!)