need harder springs for my coilovers????

[Curt]

Ed Dooooooooooowwwwwwwe


Love you really

[Ruan]

LOL!

Good work Curt!

[Ed Doe]

Your collective COUCHESSSS!!!!!!!!!!! /ragesmash

[raymond76]

well i guess the answer for me then is get better coilovers and after causing what can only be described as a lovers tiff i will leave it at that... T,A technics are sh ite.

[Ed Doe]

lol that's I spose one way to describe it...

If you want to learn about suspension set-ups, take a read of the link below;

http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php

VERY interesting stuff...

[darrenjlobb]

Do the Gaz ones have the same range of lowerability as the TA ones? (IE can you wind them down as far?)

[mark_airey]

^^ I think you can wind the Gaz ones down further as the bodies are shorter if I'm not mistaken Darren, clearly it has to be worth spending the value of the entire car on a set of front shocks for normal, day to day, road use :?

[Ed Doe]

^^ I think you can wind the Gaz ones down further as the bodies are shorter if I'm not mistaken Darren, clearly it has to be worth spending the value of the entire car on a set of front shocks for normal, day to day, road use :?

Naturally, I mean what's the point of an enthusiast spending money on tuning a car...?

Owait, my car's worth more than £400, so that can't have been aimed at me...

Yes they do have shortened bodies; http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?a=i&p=...r-Kit-GHA-

[mark_airey]

Naturally, I mean what's the point of an enthusiast spending money on tuning a car...?

Owait, my car's worth more than £400, so that can't have been aimed at me...

Yes they do have shortened bodies; http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?a=i&p=...r-Kit-GHA-

At the end of the day Ed is still a 13 year old French shit box, and who said not to spend money on it, my point is that I have a 1.9 205 GTi that I could have bought 4 times for what you are spending on some shocks! I wonder which was better value...........

[Dan!]

Not again you two........ :naughty:

[mark_airey]

Not again you two........ :naughty:

No idea what you mean Dan...........I was just clarifying what I was meaning since Ed didn't appear to grasp it very well! :roll:

[cwspellowe]

Just to dive in at the deep end here, polybushed wishbones have a higher torsional strength at the pivot point so while they don't actually affect the spring rate of the struts, they do affect the vertical stiffness of the suspension set up. It may only be nominal but they do play a part.

Polybushes, or for example Meyle HD bushes, are made of a harder rubber and therefore offer more resistance to rotational movement than standard or worn bushes or, at the total opposite end of the spectrum, roller bearing wishbone bushes, that offer zero rotational resistance combined with zero lateral movement.

So yes, Ed, stiffer rubber bushes DO affect the overall dynamics of the vertical movement of the suspension setup. You were right in so far as they don't affect spring rate of the strut, but that's about it. Why do you think lowered cars need to have the wishbone bushes aligned again after changing the ride height? To have a load on something and needing to alter it means there must be some kind of mechanical resistance

Suppose you went and welded the wishbones to the car instead of using rubber bushes, would be a VERY stiff setup then wouldn't it?

Bloody GTI6 owners, they're all the same

[mark_airey]

^^ thats that then!

/discussion

[Ed Doe]

Just to dive in at the deep end here, polybushed wishbones have a higher torsional strength at the pivot point so while they don't actually affect the spring rate of the struts, they do affect the vertical stiffness of the suspension set up. It may only be nominal but they do play a part.

Polybushes, or for example Meyle HD bushes, are made of a harder rubber and therefore offer more resistance to rotational movement than standard or worn bushes or, at the total opposite end of the spectrum, roller bearing wishbone bushes, that offer zero rotational resistance combined with zero lateral movement.

So yes, Ed, stiffer rubber bushes DO affect the overall dynamics of the vertical movement of the suspension setup. You were right in so far as they don't affect spring rate of the strut, but that's about it. Why do you think lowered cars need to have the wishbone bushes aligned again after changing the ride height? To have a load on something and needing to alter it means there must be some kind of mechanical resistance

Suppose you went and welded the wishbones to the car instead of using rubber bushes, would be a VERY stiff setup then wouldn't it?

Bloody GTI6 owners, they're all the same

fcuk me I've been out Adenoided!! OOOOWWWWWwwwww

I think my point still stands. Yes I am aware it will have a small effect in vertical stiffness of the set-up with different bushes, but it isn't strictly relevant, because the springs in the OP's coilovers are clearly WAY too soft...

But yes for everyone else's benefit, I GOT TOLD!

[darrenjlobb]

There not to soft...there friggin harder than most other setups... They just have endless lowering threads which means you can lower them so much that the shock is near bottomed out before u start....

[mark_airey]

There not to soft...there friggin harder than most other setups... They just have endless lowering threads which means you can lower them so much that the shock is near bottomed out before u start....

This ^^ as we have both said already in this thread.................. :roll:

[darrenjlobb]

I cant understand how anyone can say there soft, one of the most "annoying" thing people complain about with the cheap setups is how hard / group a spec the f*cking ride is, because there hard as hell, and then there complaining cos there to soft and bottoming out every 30 seconds...

Saying that, ive got mine wound down pretty far, and haven't ever smashed the stops yet...

Would be pretty fun / interesting though to spend an afternoon on a private track with say eds car and another equal 6 on HT coilies, and push them into bends at set speeds etc, and see what difference there actually is, and then compare general driving with both setups.

[mark_airey]

Mine are on the last thread of adjustment and do hit the stops occasionally if you mash into a massive bump, but then they have like 30mm of travel left at that hight so it kind of comes with running them practically sat on the stops, they are hard as hell though in normal driving as we have both said already!

I would love to know the actual difference between them on a track and road, either way I bet it doesn't justify the cost of Gaz's as much as I would love a set of decent coilovers I just really don't see the need!

[Rippthrough]

Because if you want the car low, you need a hard spring, yes the springs might be stiffer than other setups, but that doesn't mean they're stiff enough to support the car for all the people that keep winding them down 80-100mm....

Besides, the harshness isn't from the springs as such, it's the valving snapping open + shut + friction from the rubber piston seals.


Measure the speed difference on the track wouldn't tell you anything about the adjustability of the setup, it's not just about peak grip, it's about what you can do with the car over transients such as turn in and over kerbing, how it behaves when you hit a bump in the middle of the corner, the feedback they give the driver, and even how they cope with the chassis control past the limit if you get it wrong - often find the stiff, harsh setups do well on track if it's smooth, but are terrible if you go kerb-hopping, and if you overcook it slightly they make it much harder to catch the car.
And if you like bumpy b-roads they often fire the arse end upwards at speed...

Okay, my car's high, but the ride on my setup is as comfortable as standard - the only thing that really intrudes is on rough roads where you get patter noise from the solid rear beam and wishbones, understandable given that there's no rubber left in the suspension - and some from the brake discs as they're fully floating - but, it's still comfortable.

However, I'd bet a car on TA/Racelands slammed to the floor would generate as much or more peak grip in the middle of a corner than mine on a smooth track. Add some changable conditions, rain, or some kerbs that can be run over for a better line such as at oulton though, and it wouldn't bother my setup at all.