Siemens managed Berlingo not hot starting

[Jaymes306]

Hi guys, Thought id pick someones brains who knows a thing or two about a siemens managed hdi engine!

Basicly ive brought this berlingo 02 plate thinking i could fix it not knowing there engines are siemens managed not bosch - ;'(

Vans a bastard to cold start. Have to keep cranking and squeeze the hand primer, Might finally kick in then when warm will not start for love or money!

This model doesnt have a in tank fuel pump as ive found out today when i dropped the fuel tank, Ive tryed some research online but havnt had much luck finding anything.

Some pointers would be awsome before i start ripping things to bits

Oh yeah and if someone could fill me in on how the high pressure fuel pump works without a lower pressure feeding it would be nice, Thanks for reading

Cheers

[DeeTurbo]

Sounds like the delphi system thats in my dads clio. He had problems in that also. The main pump has a small low pressure pump incorporated into it that sucks the fuel up to the main pump. The low pressure pump part was screwed and he had to replace the whole thing and it also tackard the injectors to, filings from the wear on the pump got to them.

[Poodle]

Erm, yeah, sounds like hp pump tbh dude, sorry. That's the symptoms mine had when the hp pump went anyway, management may be different, but principles are basically the same.

[Jaymes306]

I dont mind changing the pump just need to know what im dealing with, Id be wounded if it didnt fix the problem lol

[Poodle]

Well the theory behind it goes like so...

If you're having to squeeze the hand primer the lift pump isn't working as well as it should. When the engine is hot it heats up the fuel in the tank, thanks to the return flow from the fpr and injector leak-offs. It's harder to maintain flow and pressure with warm fuel, so although it starts with help from cold, it can't do the same when warm.

Does it cut out under load? Don't know what the fail-safes are on the siemens management, but can't imagine they're much different from bosch - if the pressure doesn't reach Xbar then it won't fire, or if it falls below Xbar then it'll shut down. Don't know though, may just impose an operating restriction instead.

Without testing it with proper kit you're always going to be taking a risk on fixing it, no way around it.

[Jaymes306]

Doesnt cut out mate, It does however wonder in and out of diesel knocking sessions evan though the timings fine? Had it running a minute ago to move it, left it to idle for a bit and it was smooth, then some diesel knock for around 2 mins then smooth again and then some knock as i began to move it.

Cheers

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Oh and once moved it wouldnt start again ^.^

[Poodle]

Fair enough, need to know more about the siemens management system really, don't know what we're dealing with otherwise... I would guess the diesel knock is down to knackered injectors. Looking more and more like deeturbo is bang on the money.

[Jaymes306]

Would make sense, I found the part he was on about and i think hes right, Doesnt distach from the main pump, Im thinking pump and injector change tbh

[Poodle]

Looking that way bud. At least if it's running you know it's not the ecu at fault, there's no lift pump, hence no brown relay, so beyond pump and injectors i'm not sure what else the problem could be.

Could be drawing in air from a split in the fuel lines i guess, or maybe the one-way valve on the grenade is failing...

Running out of ideas now lol.

[Jaymes306]

I suppose i could check the fuel lines before i go any further, Cheaper option

[Jaymes306]

right well i checked the airlines and they seemed fine, i have since then changed the pump for another, Now ive got a huge air problem in the lines and it will not start at all.
Is the new pump (scrappy job) shagged?
Going to take it back tommorow and whilst there get some injectors

[Poodle]

Aren't the siemens pumps coded...?

Not sure i'd ever buy a cr pump from the scrappy tbh, they're too fragile, if you know what i mean - the moment there's rust inside they're outside of tolerances.

[Jaymes306]

Are they? I thought it was same as bosch, bang it on and fire her up lol.
I am well in truly wounded at the moment!!
Any ideas where i can get my hands on peugeot planet software cheap? It might solve my problems me thinks
Also the vans gone into eco mode without me relising and ive read it stops the car from locking/starting

o.O

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Is 1.5 volts to a injector normal?

[Poodle]

Don't know tbh, really don't know anything about the siemens systems. Can you tell?? Lol...

I can get you the software, it's the tool you'll need.

Ah, at least that explains why it's not starting, that's down to low battery issues isn't it..?

Um, don't know lol, it's 80v firing signal on the bosch system, but you won't see that without a spectrometer iirc.

[Jaymes306]

Yeah think i triggered the eco mode yesterday when i had the headlights on with the battery low from trying to crank it over, Only the sidelights would come on which apprantley is it kicking into eco mode.
Basicly my attempt to get it started today was never going to succeed as its been in that mode all day silly me
How much can i get the tool for?

[Pete]

Doesn't take much for eco mode to come in on these, mine go's into it after just having the radio on for 5 mins! I have the occasional starting issue with mine too, afew minutes messing about with the central locking or unplugging the tuning box usually sorts it. Know it's a fueling issue though as I sometimes get a misfire soon after. Not looked into it to much as it doesn't happen often

[Poodle]

Lolz. Think you can pick up a clone on ebay for about £80, most come with a cracked version of the software included, which works fine as long as you don't let it connect to the net.

[Jaymes306]

Ill be looking into the software, I did some more to the van today. I took some injectors, fuel rail and another hp pump from a running engine stuck it all on the van and guess what...Nothing.
Lol become a very annoying problem now, It must be a electrical sensor or ecu fault?

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I forgot to mention in my previous post, The diesel was shooting past the copper rings so i know the injectors are firing.
Im truely puzzled as to why it wont start as before it would start occasionally

[Poodle]

Diesel was coming past the injector seals..? Lack of compression then?

[Jaymes306]

Yeah mate, Blowing diesel vapour up past the copper ring seal when cranking over

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i thought some new copper seals from peugeot would do the trick?

[Poodle]

Might do, what were the injector seats like?

[Jaymes306]

Covered in shite, but it did let me know that the Injectors are firing so would have thought the ecu is fine, god knows why it wont start

[Poodle]

If it's spitting diesel from the seats then there's not enough compression to start i shouldn't think, they need to be really clean to seat properly. I've got a seat cutting set here if you want to borrow them.

[Jaymes306]

I banged some new washers in there and it stopped spitting diesel evreywhere, Still wont start like lol

[Jaymes306]

Right ive had a mate plug his peugeot planet into the van andngets no response from the ecu at all, any ideas?

[Poodle]

Could be a dead ecu i guess, but then why would diesel be getting into the cylinders....?

Did you get that document ok btw? Find anything useful?

[Jaymes306]

Yeah i got the document cheers for that, I found a couple usefull things in there but with the ecu not playing ball i cant see anything working lol

[Poodle]

Oh not much use then lol.

Wondering if chasing fuel issues is barking up the wrong tree... Tried the cam and crank sensors?

[Jonny81191]

Seimens ECU's and PP really don;t mix in my experience. Mine won't communicate at all with my 406.

Bosch ECU and fuel system conversion?

[Jaymes306]

Cant see it being as simple as swapping ecus and that over, looks like theres more to the shit siemens set up, ive swapped the cam and crank sensor, cranks brand new but obviously dont have the tool to make sure there working