"Rental" 306 for track days?

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"Rental" 306 for track days?
#1
Hi,

I've just bought another 306 for www.nosmokenopoke.com as a sort of "club" vehicle. Obviously it will end up at the track days / shows etc - but I have a question...

If I worked out a way to safely (from an indemnity perspective) "lend it" out to you guys to play with on track - would people be interested?

I see a great example being something like PPC in the Park, French Car Show, or next weekend's Forge Action Day. No Smoke No Poke would be there, with a club stand, I'd take my GTi-6 track car and be out most of the day on track and we would have the Club 306 HDi there as well. People would buy their own track time, sign an indemnity form with us (that basically said if you crashed you wouldn't sue us!) and then go out on track and play for your session.

We would allow passengers, lap sharing etc etc and basically drive it like you stole it, enjoy it and bring it back in one piece. If you crashed it, you'd have to either fix it or pay to get it towed away.

I'd be happy to lend it to 306oc etc if it was wanted for a show / event or just a promo type thing used at a hillclimb etc if people didn't want to use their own cars.

What do people think?

JP
JP
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#2
I'd be interested; albeit legal, safe and fast!
Diablo Hdi Dturbo and 205 1.9 project - it lives!
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#3
180+hp HDi with decent suspension etc, so pretty quick and pretty safe.

The legal bit is the bit I need to make sure I can get right though, ensuring everyone is safe in terms of an accident etc.

JP
JP
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#4
You'd need to make sure you have public liability insurance I believe, regardless of any waivers that you might get people to sign. Also as you would be footing the bills for it I'm guessing you'd be charging a small fee for use of the vehicle? Smile

It's something we thought about doing with the OC Wagon but it looked too costly to be honest and we kind of abandoned the idea. It'd be great if you could go through with it though!
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#5
what about consumables
brakes/tyres/fuel/undrerpants?
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#6
It will happen, even if it ends up being lent to people for no fee and directly from me rather than anything through the club.

Ideally I'd like to think something like £5 gets you the keys for 1 track slot which the user has paid for - but like you say, you'll have to sign to say you won't sue etc. We already have public liability insurance, any owners club should as you can (and I have!) had people try to sue me after they blew their engine up following advice on the forums. Unfortunately, a disclaimer isn't enough.

I need to speak with my solicitor about the ins and outs of it - but given I've bought a car, and a shed full of bits to make a decent track car it seems a no brainer!

JP

(05-09-2013, 05:41 PM)cully Wrote: what about consumables
brakes/tyres/fuel/undrerpants?

Brakes and tyres are paid for by the club, it's a hit we would take simply because it's good advertising and nice to see people using it!

Underpants can be supplied at additional cost...
JP
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#7
if its the car I think it is, you have made a great choice of car and the setup is good!
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#8
Procta - it is! :-) I don't want to give the game away just yet, but it's got the makings of a great car.

I've got the right bits lying around to make it faster, grippier and stop better - plus I'll donate my old half cage to it to keep people safe...

JP
JP
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#9
(05-09-2013, 05:45 PM)jammapic Wrote: Procta - it is! :-) I don't want to give the game away just yet, but it's got the makings of a great car.

I've got the right bits lying around to make it faster, grippier and stop better - plus I'll donate my old half cage to it to keep people safe...

JP

fare play, nearly uploaded a photo, I have drove it and been it at croft.
its a hell of a good car!
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#10
Keep it to yourself for now pal. :-)
JP
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#11
(05-09-2013, 05:51 PM)jammapic Wrote: Keep it to yourself for now pal. :-)

not a bother
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#12
Sounds like a good idea to me
[Image: image_zps45f2003b.jpg]

Team Doesn't own a 306
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#13
I'd be too scared to stack it
May be worth taking deposites just incase?
[Image: IMG_20130925_181339_zps95df48fa.jpg]
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#14
Nah, I don't want to get into deposits etc etc... takes the fun out of it.

It'll be a case of, if you smash it up - put it right or get it towed away.

My main aim for this is to let people have fun, the car will be sub £1000 - not worth worrying about for that money.

JP
JP
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#15
Cant see it working. People get comfortable in their own cars and as they use it more and more, they get to know what it can and cant do. You wont be able to do this with this at the worst possible time as on track is when you really want to push your car close to its limits.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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#16
Thought about something similar myself but I think in this day and age with the prosecutions and claim culture I thought it would be to bigger risk..

That aside I think it's a great idea but as more of a business idea of people renting the car than loaning it etc
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#17
(05-09-2013, 08:14 PM)Niall Wrote: time on track is when you really want to push your car close to its limits.

Then you shouldn't be allowed on a track.

Public track days are NOT for that.

(05-09-2013, 08:14 PM)Blandy Wrote: Thought about something similar myself but I think in this day and age with the prosecutions and claim culture I thought it would be to bigger risk..

That aside I think it's a great idea but as more of a business idea of people renting the car than loaning it etc

Yeah, I take your point mate... but I think you are missing mine.

It's not about making money, business etc... it's about getting people out on track in a 306 if they don't want to take their own on.

JP
JP
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#18
(05-09-2013, 08:15 PM)jammapic Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:14 PM)Niall Wrote: time on track is when you really want to push your car close to its limits.

Then you shouldn't be allowed on a track.

Public track days are NOT for that.

(05-09-2013, 08:14 PM)Blandy Wrote: Thought about something similar myself but I think in this day and age with the prosecutions and claim culture I thought it would be to bigger risk..

That aside I think it's a great idea but as more of a business idea of people renting the car than loaning it etc

Yeah, I take your point mate... but I think you are missing mine.

It's not about making money, business etc... it's about getting people out on track in a 306 if they don't want to take their own on.

JP

Right so your telling me when your on track you dont drive your car harder than you do when your on the road? Because if thats the case, you either drive like a complete wanker on the road or everyones overtaking you non stop on track.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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#19
(05-09-2013, 08:18 PM)Niall Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:15 PM)jammapic Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:14 PM)Niall Wrote: time on track is when you really want to push your car close to its limits.

Then you shouldn't be allowed on a track.

Public track days are NOT for that.

(05-09-2013, 08:14 PM)Blandy Wrote: Thought about something similar myself but I think in this day and age with the prosecutions and claim culture I thought it would be to bigger risk..

That aside I think it's a great idea but as more of a business idea of people renting the car than loaning it etc

Yeah, I take your point mate... but I think you are missing mine.

It's not about making money, business etc... it's about getting people out on track in a 306 if they don't want to take their own on.

JP

Right so your telling me when your on track you dont drive your car harder than you do when your on the road? Because if thats the case, you either drive like a complete wanker on the road or everyones overtaking you non stop on track.

I drive much harder on track than I do on the road, that's why I have a track car so I can enjoy doing 100+mph and taking corners at speed - but I go no-where near the limit of what the car or I can do. There are too many variables to consider, mainly around mechanical failure, other track users etc.

If you want to push to the limit, enter competitively. There are safety regulations and tests to ensure the cars are safe and people are skilled.

JP
JP
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#20
Harder you drive, the closer you start to get to pushing the limits of your car. Simple.
Im sure everyone here knows where the limit of their car is and thats why you only get close to that limit. Push past that limit and considering you will be going much faster on track than on the road (well not too sure for you after some of the videos you've posted in the past), if you do exceed that limit, its going to go wrong big time.
There is nothing wrong with getting CLOSE to the limit of your car on track.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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#21
I am getting your point but as said with this culture were in if someone takes it out and stacks it and comes out with broken bones etc there will be compensation questions IMO.. and ues i know its a extreem but as said i thougt about it but its a big risk.. (I see you thought of a disclaimer etc but dunno how that would stand legally)

It's a nice thing to think of but tbh these cars are cheap now and if people want to go on track I'd let them take there own car lol and after looking after my own track car it could work out costly etc again its a very nice kind thing to do but if you do do it just be very careful with the legal side of things imo
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#22
(05-09-2013, 08:25 PM)Niall Wrote: you will be going much faster on track than on the road (well not too sure for you after some of the videos you've posted in the past)

BURN!
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#23
(05-09-2013, 08:25 PM)Niall Wrote: Harder you drive, the closer you start to get to pushing the limits of your car. Simple.
Im sure everyone here knows where the limit of their car is and thats why you only get close to that limit. Push past that limit and considering you will be going much faster on track than on the road (well not too sure for you after some of the videos you've posted in the past), if you do exceed that limit, its going to go wrong big time.
There is nothing wrong with getting CLOSE to the limit of your car on track.

I guess at the end of the day it's about ensuring you've got something left in reserve in case you have to brake mid corner for example because someone spins and sussing out those others on track.

Don't forget, on a public track day there are so many variations in cars, slower, faster, cheap or expensive and different levels of driver. I wouldn't want to be close to my limit following a £200 shitter with a tool behind the wheel for example, but following a professional race driver in a £40,000 Merc for I'd have a good go at trying to keep up.

Maybe I read your original post wrong, sorry, I assumed you meant get on track and just go balls out the whole time close to the limit. If you build up to 8 or 9, 10ths, give people plenty of space and let things warm up and cool down you can't really go wrong.

JP

(05-09-2013, 08:30 PM)Pugmarshall Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:25 PM)Niall Wrote: you will be going much faster on track than on the road (well not too sure for you after some of the videos you've posted in the past)

BURN!

I ignored it. Obviously on his period.
JP
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#24
(05-09-2013, 08:31 PM)jammapic Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:25 PM)Niall Wrote: Harder you drive, the closer you start to get to pushing the limits of your car. Simple.
Im sure everyone here knows where the limit of their car is and thats why you only get close to that limit. Push past that limit and considering you will be going much faster on track than on the road (well not too sure for you after some of the videos you've posted in the past), if you do exceed that limit, its going to go wrong big time.
There is nothing wrong with getting CLOSE to the limit of your car on track.

I guess at the end of the day it's about ensuring you've got something left in reserve in case you have to brake mid corner for example because someone spins and sussing out those others on track.

Don't forget, on a public track day there are so many variations in cars, slower, faster, cheap or expensive and different levels of driver. I wouldn't want to be close to my limit following a £200 shitter with a tool behind the wheel for example, but following a professional race driver in a £40,000 Merc for I'd have a good go at trying to keep up.

Maybe I read your original post wrong, sorry, I assumed you meant get on track and just go balls out the whole time close to the limit. If you build up to 8 or 9, 10ths, give people plenty of space and let things warm up and cool down you can't really go wrong.

JP

I think it goes without saying that if someone in front of you in their 1.1 saxo is potting along at 40 and slowing down to 1st gear for corners, your not going to just smash on as hard as possible and just hope hes not in your line of travel.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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#25
(05-09-2013, 08:34 PM)Niall Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:31 PM)jammapic Wrote:
(05-09-2013, 08:25 PM)Niall Wrote: Harder you drive, the closer you start to get to pushing the limits of your car. Simple.
Im sure everyone here knows where the limit of their car is and thats why you only get close to that limit. Push past that limit and considering you will be going much faster on track than on the road (well not too sure for you after some of the videos you've posted in the past), if you do exceed that limit, its going to go wrong big time.
There is nothing wrong with getting CLOSE to the limit of your car on track.

I guess at the end of the day it's about ensuring you've got something left in reserve in case you have to brake mid corner for example because someone spins and sussing out those others on track.

Don't forget, on a public track day there are so many variations in cars, slower, faster, cheap or expensive and different levels of driver. I wouldn't want to be close to my limit following a £200 shitter with a tool behind the wheel for example, but following a professional race driver in a £40,000 Merc for I'd have a good go at trying to keep up.

Maybe I read your original post wrong, sorry, I assumed you meant get on track and just go balls out the whole time close to the limit. If you build up to 8 or 9, 10ths, give people plenty of space and let things warm up and cool down you can't really go wrong.

JP

I think it goes without saying that if someone in front of you in their 1.1 saxo is potting along at 40 and slowing down to 1st gear for corners, your not going to just smash on as hard as possible and just hope hes not in your line of travel.

I more meant a tool as in someone who was driving right on the limit with no real driver control and potential of the shit car falling apart 100 yards infront of you!

JP

(05-09-2013, 08:28 PM)Blandy Wrote: I am getting your point but as said with this culture were in if someone takes it out and stacks it and comes out with broken bones etc there will be compensation questions IMO.. and ues i know its a extreem but as said i thougt about it but its a big risk.. (I see you thought of a disclaimer etc but dunno how that would stand legally)

It's a nice thing to think of but tbh these cars are cheap now and if people want to go on track I'd let them take there own car lol and after looking after my own track car it could work out costly etc again its a very nice kind thing to do but if you do do it just be very careful with the legal side of things imo

Yeah, totally agree. Gotta dot the i's and cross the t's. If it doesn't work, it'll just be a case of taking it to shows and if people want to use it - crack on. My treat! Smile

JP
JP
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#26
Niall, its a great idea. Stop throwing a spanner in the works. Dont know whats up wirh you lately but it seams like your constantly on your reds mate. Chill out ffs and post something positive for a change.
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#27
(05-09-2013, 08:44 PM)kingy Wrote: Niall, its a great idea. Stop throwing a spanner in the works. Dont know whats up wirh you lately but it seams like your constantly on your reds mate. Chill out ffs and post something positive for a change.

Hes asked for an opinion as to what people think about the idea. Ive given my opinion as to why i dont think it will be a great idea, albeit in a rather blunt manner.
On a positive note, it is nice to see someone who wants to do something for the community but in reality, i think there will be far too many issues with it.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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#28
It's a good idea, but no offence to everyone - 306 owners are the wrong market. If you had a high power track weapon (insert car here) where all the owners are loaded, then sure, but the reality is most 306 owners can't afford track and if they can their own car is ready for it
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#29
I'm with JP to an extent; as you can rent a lot of things for various use, it doesn't mean you use it like you stole it.

If you've got a few laps, you can grip how the car drives. With a brief on the car, and possibly JP/affiliated member as a passenger with a headset or something, I can't see why not.

I drove an Aston Martin and an ariel atom on a track day. I didn't ruin it not did I not find how far it can be pushed.

It's a completely feasible idea Id say; as you say J, you've got issues to overcome firs. Look at bhptrackdays and perhaps get links to monster deals/groupon?
Diablo Hdi Dturbo and 205 1.9 project - it lives!
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#30
possibly look into having the car insured for track use instead of you just have PI insurance? In reality, if someone writes it off, who is going to have 1k minimum just floating about to go here you go, replace your car.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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