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Garrett GT20 Project
#1
Right, imagine the torment of logging on this morning and finding out my ban didn't expire until 9:47 tonight, just before I go to bed! Well I thought I should stay up since it's a special occasion. Originally this was to be a Garrett GT2056S project but GT2056S's seem damn near impossible to comeby, as well as a GT2052S coming up at a rediculously low price (£65), but it may need a rebuild. I have asked some questions about the turbo itself in this thread, but I want to keep the project thread for fitting it all together.

Right, some items have been gathered and arrived for this project, which will be pictured below:

850 Watt drill:

[Image: P1010141_zpsf40707ae.jpg]

Steel plate (ZX_Volcane said not to buy it on eBay, but at £7.50 a pop it is cheaper than driving around looking for a metal smith to beg for offcuts!)

[Image: P1010001_zpsb2d319f2.jpg]

EGT Sensor:

[Image: P1010007_zps1168ad81.jpg]

And it wouldn't be a project without the unit itself:

[Image: P1010012_zps9288b526.jpg]

As it happens, this unit had the triangular exit so I don't need an adapter plate. The second one can be a spare for if I need to fit a new unit that does require an adapter plate.

The first thing I need to do is drill the manifold and thread the holes to bolt the turbocharger on. I need to know how to line up the turbo hole with the manifold hole, anyone got any ideas?

Also I need to know the diameter of the manifold bolt holes, I thought it was 12mm but that was a couple mm too big, does anyone know for certain? Or can you suggest a way to find their widest point and for me to measure it? Once I have them drilled I can then tap them for the bolts.

I also need to sort the exhaust elbow, I was thinking of doing it like this:

[Image: P1010019_zps2b1cf095.jpg]

And then drawing around the studs, but the problem is the studs are different lengths, so how can I approach this? Obviously once that was done a hole would be cut and a suitably large elbow welded to the steel plate.

As for the EGT gauge, I have an 8.5mm drill bit to drill a hole for the 1/8th NPT fitting, is this okay? Don't forget I will have to tap it as well.

Well that's it for now, I'll post updates as and when. I must say, I am really out of my depth here, I have never used power tools before (I'm only 23) so I will have to take it a bit at a time. But some guys on here were very encouraging so I decided to give it a go!
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#2
Good luck!
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#3
Rofl

Dude, please, put down the power drill for just a second. Wink Go and do some reading around in the project section, see how other people have done theirs. I'd suggest getting it all into position and having a look at what needs to be where, does the compressor outlet point in the right direction, etc? I use a hell of a lot of cardboard and pva myself, it's great for making templates and mocking up brackets, means i can actually test fit stuff without doing anything expensive if it's wrong.

Think about the problems you're looking at, the solution is usually simple, for example: If the studs need to be the same length, then cut down a little where required, clean up the edges with a file and extend the thread if necessary, job done. Whatever you do, do it properly, it'll be a better end result for it. Fair play for having a go fella, and good luck.
306 HDi Deathtrap - 130bhp / 220lbft
...UPGRADING...



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#4
To line up the holes use a big flat bit of blue tack across the flanges, press together then pull apart and see how far out you were

Or get a bit of pipe thats nearly the right diameter, wrap it in tape till it is the right diameter (im guessing man and turbo are different diameters) then use that to align and a drill bit to mark
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#5
(26-06-2013, 10:08 PM)Poodle Wrote: Rofl

Dude, please, put down the power drill for just a second. Wink Go and do some reading around in the project section, see how other people have done theirs. I'd suggest getting it all into position and having a look at what needs to be where, does the compressor outlet point in the right direction, etc? I use a hell of a lot of cardboard and pva myself, it's great for making templates and mocking up brackets, means i can actually test fit stuff without doing anything expensive if it's wrong.

Think about the problems you're looking at, the solution is usually simple, for example: If the studs need to be the same length, then cut down a little where required, clean up the edges with a file and extend the thread if necessary, job done. Whatever you do, do it properly, it'll be a better end result for it. Fair play for having a go fella, and good luck.

I have read some of the project threads (such as cwspellowe's) but there is nothing showing how to actually measure stuff up and mark out the holes to drill. The cardboard suggestion sounds good. I need to find a use for that. You guys are so lucky that these practical things come to you so easily! I don't want to cut the studs though as I don't have anything to cut them with plus something like an angle grinder is too expensive and way too dangerous.


(26-06-2013, 10:11 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: To line up the holes use a big flat bit of blue tack across the flanges, press together then pull apart and see how far out you were

Or get a bit of pipe thats nearly the right diameter, wrap it in tape till it is the right diameter (im guessing man and turbo are different diameters) then use that to align and a drill bit to mark

Thanks for the second helpful post Dum-Dum! I tried the pipe trick, the only problem is that the exhaust inlet on the turbocharger gets smaller and smaller as it gets towards the wheel. I guess I will buy some bluetack today and then post the results up on here to benefit other people who have not done this before. One thing I noticed is that the hole in the manifold is bigger than the hole in the turbocharger exhaust inlet, is that going to cause a sealing problem?

I can illustrate what I mean with this glass ceiling spot light cover:

[Image: P1010001_zps25a71f2a.jpg]

[Image: P1010002_zpsd69864fc.jpg]
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#6
I would like to no how your going to clock the turbo and be able to keep the waste gate, find it hard to see how that will work. Good luck with it all tho carnt wait to see how you get on with it Smile



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#7
(27-06-2013, 08:24 AM)Chris_90 Wrote: I would like to no how your going to clock the turbo and be able to keep the waste gate, find it hard to see how that will work. Good luck with it all tho carnt wait to see how you get on with it Smile

i guess he's already thought about this and relocating the actuator through making a custom bracket.
Oh, add that to your shopping list; a welder.
Diablo Hdi Dturbo and 205 1.9 project - it lives!
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#8
They don't show that stuff because it's so easy, it's nothing to do with luck, it's to do with sitting down and actually thinking about it. Go on, you should try it, thinking can be really fun, i bet once you start you'll be having so much fun you won't be able to stop! Have a go with google too, there's at least three questions you've asked that will be answered by the first result on google. Assuming you don't work it out by yourself first when you try that thinking thing.

With regards to the cutting of the studs - how about a hacksaw then? A grinder isn't dangerous, no more so than the power drill you've got there, it's the people that use them that are the problem.
306 HDi Deathtrap - 130bhp / 220lbft
...UPGRADING...



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#9
(26-06-2013, 10:11 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: To line up the holes use a big flat bit of blue tack across the flanges, press together then pull apart and see how far out you were

Or get a bit of pipe thats nearly the right diameter, wrap it in tape till it is the right diameter (im guessing man and turbo are different diameters) then use that to align and a drill bit to mark

Hi, I have tried to squish some bluetack into the holes:

[Image: P1010004_zps6bfbaf25.jpg]

[Image: P1010005_zpsc59dc1fb.jpg]

What should I do with these impressions on the bluetack?
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#10
I drew around the flange onto cardboard, cut it out, lined it up with the flange then poked the holes through the cardboard. Also put some paint on the flange (brush on, don't spray on as it will end up everywhere and inside the housing) then pressed the cardboard onto it to give you a rough idea as to what angle to bolt it onto the manifold. Then you also have to take into consideration the angle of the turbo for the exhaust, and also the compressor outlet, especially if your using the original tmic manifold, get the angle wrong and the boost pipe will not fit through it, its a tight fit as standard.

I did it will a spare turbo on an old manifold to get the rough angles right, and the clocking right. You also will probably need to either modify the actuator bracket because clocking it will move the original mountings, I modified and used a TD04 actuator. And have you sorted out what you are going to do for a downpipe? The gt2052 is a very midrange focused turbo, use a crap stock elbow and downpipe and it will most probably be rubbish.
GT2052s DTurbo
OEM+ HDI Estate
Project thread
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#11
Is this the method that you are describing?

[Image: P1010006_zpscd18044e.jpg]

[Image: P1010007_zps484f382b.jpg]

I just tried a rough one to begin with. I also need to try out the paint method, that will be more accurate than drawing around the flange.
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#12
Yeah.
GT2052s DTurbo
OEM+ HDI Estate
Project thread
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#13
(27-06-2013, 04:38 PM)306Puggy Wrote:
(26-06-2013, 10:11 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: To line up the holes use a big flat bit of blue tack across the flanges, press together then pull apart and see how far out you were

Or get a bit of pipe thats nearly the right diameter, wrap it in tape till it is the right diameter (im guessing man and turbo are different diameters) then use that to align and a drill bit to mark

Hi, I have tried to squish some bluetack into the holes:

[Image: P1010004_zps6bfbaf25.jpg]

[Image: P1010005_zpsc59dc1fb.jpg]

What should I do with these impressions on the bluetack?

use it to make a mold and make a template from plaster of paris, then take it to an engineering place to get them to make you an adapter plate.
Welding and fabrication projects undertaken, contact me for more information.

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#14
That seems a bit complicated to me. I would rather do it all myself anyway, get more satisfaction from that!
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#15
(27-06-2013, 06:09 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote:
(27-06-2013, 04:38 PM)306Puggy Wrote:
(26-06-2013, 10:11 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: To line up the holes use a big flat bit of blue tack across the flanges, press together then pull apart and see how far out you were

Or get a bit of pipe thats nearly the right diameter, wrap it in tape till it is the right diameter (im guessing man and turbo are different diameters) then use that to align and a drill bit to mark

Hi, I have tried to squish some bluetack into the holes:

[Image: P1010004_zps6bfbaf25.jpg]

[Image: P1010005_zpsc59dc1fb.jpg]

What should I do with these impressions on the bluetack?

use it to make a mold and make a template from plaster of paris, then take it to an engineering place to get them to make you an adapter plate.

^^This. if no plaster of paris, use tissue and a 50/50 mix of water and pva glue
[Image: signature_zps1a02ba79.jpg]
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#16
Right, now tried to use the paint method. It didn't turn out that well maybe because I used gloss paint. I believe that it is usable though:
[Image: P1010014_zps09d4db1f.jpg]

I am trying to figure out whether this can be a direct fit to the manifold or not. My turbocharger's flange is the opposite to cwspellowe's. In that the one bolt goes at the bottom and the two bolts go at the top. Which puts the bolt threads into the actual manifold area, which would introduce another two places to leak. I can't tell from cwspellowe's pictures whether or not the bolts he put in would protrude into the manifold area or not and if so whether it would create a potential weak spot for gases to escape.

If it won't directly bolt on then I will have to use an adapter plate which will also need me to take an impression of the exhaust manifold's flange as well.
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#17
You'll need an adapter plate in that case. There won't be enough material on the manifold flange to drill and bolt on the turbo.
[Image: signature_zps1a02ba79.jpg]
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#18
Okay then, I will go with the adapter plate.
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#19
adapter plate being a larger plate, with holes in it for each flange.

if you search for td04 adapter plates on here, you will see the sort of thing you need to achieve.

And you will likely want flange gaskets for these too
Wishes for more power...
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#20
I have a rather nice HSS 12mm drill bit that I bought in anticipation of making an adapter plate. I bought it to drill holes for the bolts to go through the manifold to turbo (or in this case adapter plate) holes but it seems a couple mill too big? Is this a problem? Or does a couple mm not really matter that much? I was just thinking it might allow the bolts to come loose more easily. But then if there is a couple mm either way it would also mean that if the holes are plotted on the adapter plate slightly out then I would have a few mm either way to play with as well.
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#21
12mm would probably be too big. Guess theres nothing wrong with it but a hole closer to the size of the bolts your using would be best. Unless your using quite big bolts?
[Image: 65613_10200761612710317_1548698655_n_zps68c27004.jpg]

CONVOI EXCEPTIONNEL
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#22
You actually need the bolt holes to be a bit too big to allow for some expansion when it all gets hot. You'll see the same principle used where the manifold meets the head. I think a couple of mm extra might be a bit much though.
306 HDi Deathtrap - 130bhp / 220lbft
...UPGRADING...



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#23
I haven't bought the bolts yet. I was just wondering if having some "play" in the hole might cause some kind of metal fatigue that I layman such as myself wouldn't know about. Just bought a bunch of drill bits on the 'bay now anyway from 1mm-10mm so that should cover it.

To line up the holes in the manifold and turbo I was thinking of drawing a line 10cm into the adapter plate on both sides so that both of the flanges will be on the same level. But then they will both have to be the same horizontally as well.
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#24
What size bolts are you going to be using? M8s? If so, id go no bigger than 10mm holes. yes you need to leave expansion space but not that much! Also, get your self down B&Q. They have a Makita drill bit and bit set half price at £20. Just picked my self one up on the company card and the drill bits are bloody good quality.
Team Eaton


1999 China Blue 306 GTi6 - Eaton Supercharged - 214.5bhp 181lbft
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#25
Where are you going to get the oil line made up?
Bye Bye D-Turbo
Phase 1 GTi-6 now has a new owner
Rolling in the: Phase 3 HDI Wagon

The current estate project: http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-22237.html
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#26
(27-06-2013, 08:55 PM)Poodle Wrote: You actually need the bolt holes to be a bit too big to allow for some expansion when it all gets hot. You'll see the same principle used where the manifold meets the head. I think a couple of mm extra might be a bit much though.

I know I was playing along to it.

(27-06-2013, 09:31 PM)Niall Wrote: What size bolts are you going to be using? M8s? If so, id go no bigger than 10mm holes. yes you need to leave expansion space but not that much! Also, get your self down B&Q. They have a Makita drill bit and bit set half price at £20. Just picked my self one up on the company card and the drill bits are bloody good quality.

I am planning to use whichever size bolts are normally used to bolt the turbo to the manifold to bolt the adapter plate to the manifold. Infact I might be able to get them from peugeot come to think about it.

(27-06-2013, 09:49 PM)Jtrigga Wrote: Where are you going to get the oil line made up?

Heh, that's gonna be the easy bit!



Anyway,
This is how I marked out the holes for the manifold on the adapter plate:
[Image: P1010004_zps593dbfaf.jpg]
I measured 10cm into the adapter plate on both sides then joined the marks with a line to put the manifold onto the adapter plate. Then holding the manifold still with one hand I poked a pen through the bolt holes to colour in the area through the bolt holes of the manifold. Which left me with this:

[Image: P1010006_zpsee7bad34.jpg]

I have checked it by lining it up with the manifold again and it seems fairly accurateSmile Now just gotta get some drill bits and start drilling. From a quick google it looks like I need to use a punch to put a dent in the metal roughly in the middle of where I want to drill and then I need to drill a pilot hole with a small drill bit and then I can drill the bigger hole with the right sized drill bit for the hole. Oh yeah and I need to put some oil on the drill bit as well.
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#27
well done for googling chap.

lil bit of wd40 or similar, just on the tip as you drill is good, clears the debris too

make sure you have the metal clamped down well
Wishes for more power...
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#28
Looking good mate. 10mm is as big as you'll need to go but personally id be going 8.5mm.

How thick is your adaptor plate cos it your gonna tap it then you only need about 7mm for an m8 tap.

As above make sure you clamp it to drill it or do it with q bit of wood on the floor while standing on the plate to stop it spinning. Consider starting with a 5mm bit and working up.
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#29
In enjoying reading this as I haven't a clue how to do it.

I have endless amounts of tools available, but wouldn't know where to start really!

And it's something I want to do in the future!
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#30
Right, things are moving quickly now. When I was in Aldi, conveniently I saw that they were selling some clamps. They had F shaped ones and G shaped ones which only have one movable part so I thought they would be the strongest which is what I bought:

[Image: P1010019_zps6cffce47.jpg]

[Image: P1010020_zpsc17d4cd7.jpg]

They are really nice quality as well.

The 8.5mm drill bit that I ordered turned up as well, looks like it is exactly the right size! (for the turbocharger exhaust to manifold holes)

[Image: P1010021_zpscff71022.jpg]

(28-06-2013, 01:48 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Looking good mate. 10mm is as big as you'll need to go but personally id be going 8.5mm.

How thick is your adaptor plate cos it your gonna tap it then you only need about 7mm for an m8 tap.

As above make sure you clamp it to drill it or do it with q bit of wood on the floor while standing on the plate to stop it spinning. Consider starting with a 5mm bit and working up.

PS I will clean this thread when I get back to civilisation.

My adapter plate is 6mm, the same as what cwspellowe used for his. I was planning to just stand on the plate to drill it but now with my new clamps I can do it comfortably! That reminds me, do you reckon that this template is accurate enough to mark holes for the exhaust flange bolt holes?

[Image: P1010022_zps7a42b0ae.jpg]

Oh yeah and what are you referring to about going for 8.5mm? Do you mean the drill bit or are you talking about the adapter plate? Thanks.
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