"Loose" steering

[Tom]

How do, Im trying to figure out if my cars broke or if i just dont like driving 306's because they feel shit.

Basically i thought the steering felt vague and not very connected as i'd like so i replaced all the wishbone bushes thinking they're usually shit that should sort it. The p bushes were f*cked, and now i have genuine OEM ones on there and it doesnt feel much better, still feels "loose".

But then if i get out the car and wobble the steering wheel i can see the road wheels mimicking it perfectly. So im not sure what to think of it. I reused my balljoints because the new wishbones didnt have new ones, but they wernt flopping around or anything. The only thing i didnt pay much attention to was the trackrod ends but they wernt wobbly to the point were i would of noticed working in that area.

It feels quite scary really because if im going down a hill say 60 70mph approaching a junction and brake i feel like i can wobble the steering wheel and it doesnt feel like it does anything. Am i just being weird?

[Jonny81191]

Check the steering rack to steering column join, mine was loose (didn't tighten it enough, its gotta be really tight) and it felt vague.

[Tom]

Best accessed from underneath i assume? Or can i get a really long extension down the back/side of the engine?

[Jonny81191]

Nah if you dive underneath you can get to it if you angle the steering the right way, 13mm IIRC, only one side as the other locks up against itself.

[Tom]

That joint is tight. the trackrod ends are tight, and if turn side to side just a little bit engine off sat still i can hear a knock coming from the steering rack type area?? Its not looking good :/

[Toms306]

306's all knock like that with the steering 'wiggled', I assume its just a worn rack/pinion after several thousand miles. I worried about the noise on the first two 306s I had...then realised the next one did the same...and the next...etc.

I would maybe suggest checking the bottom ball joint as the hub will obviously wobble if thats failing. And also how good are your tyres? If they're shit and you're steering and braking downhill at speed it will feel loose....

[Tom]

I cant beleive they all do it. It doesnt feel safe at all:/

The bottom ball joints were ok, when i changed the wishbones and replaced the pinch bolts.

I will get the bar in there anyway and see if anything moves.

Anyone else think of anything else?

[Toms306]

I mean that 'knock' or 'clunk' noise is normal, not necessarily the looseness.

Also just thought, really simple and obvious but do you have a low pressure tyre? I put my swallows back on the other day and one had gone flat, pumped it up with foot pump until it 'looked' ok (I dont have a pressure guage at home) and drove away but it felt awful, loose and sloppy, (oo err!), turned out there was only 17psi in it when I got to the petrol station....was fine after I pumped it up.

[Tom]

Tyre pressures are all good! New tyres aswell so its not that! i hate cars some times

[Danny2009]

Jack the front up and give the wheel a good shake top I bottom side to side see if you can feel any play, ball joints may be fine but if the hubs have ovaled out you will feel some play

[Tom]

Its either getting worse or im worrying about it and my brains making it feel worse. Will be checking hubs tomorrow, it seems to be more when turning left. I will try to explain aswell as i can, also anyone on here is welcome to drive if your close enough and see what you think, cant give you any wonga though aha.

Right if im driving in a straight line on a flat bit of road and hold the wheel central. When i turn the wheel slightly right i can feel the resistance of turning the wheel and that in turn is turning a road wheel, or so it feels like. Now if i turn the wheel left it turns maybe an inch really easily as if its not actually doing anything before it feels like it starts to turn anything else. Im hoping that described it well enough, maybe pretend to hold a steering wheel or go drive your cars and see if you can understand.

This really is a bastard of a problem to explain :/

[Toms306]

Not being funny mate, but if its really that bad and dangerous, do you know any local mechanics that could get it up on the ramp and have a look for/with you?

[Tom]

Thats my next plan i think. Will jack it up and check what i can tomorrow, and if i find nothing might have to take it to a garage

[Tom]

Going on the ramp 8 o clock mora morning. Hopefully we can find the problem im having.

[Piggy]

I'd get a good wheel alignment...centering the steering rack before you do it.

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(reason I say this is if one wheel is towing out more than the other or both are towing out, you an quite a loose feeling at high speed)

[Tom]

I'd get a good wheel alignment...centering the steering rack before you do it.

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(reason I say this is if one wheel is towing out more than the other or both are towing out, you an quite a loose feeling at high speed)

I was thinking this on the way back from work, it would make one wheel turn in "better" than the other aswell which could explain some of the feeling im getting.

[Tom]

Been up on the ramp, cant find any play anywhere. Balls. Bit lost now, we're thinking the only thing left is the actual rack which could be worn away

[Pugmarshall]

Mine felt like this after swapping the engine, with a different pump on, and it really pissed me off! I changed track rod ends, it has recent wishbones and everything else was spot on. Then after a few days I was in a car park, on full lock, and the pump made a really loud screeching noise which quickly descended into a grinding/crunching noise and my PAS pump died.

Now the steering feels much better with no PAS, not sure if that's related or power steering just feels shit, but my mum's HDi feels horrible compared to mine, too.

[Tom]

You might be onto something because the mechanical side (if you will) is fine, every single joint has been checked, no play, but when im driving something isnt right. I going to get a wheel alignment done aswell just to rule that out.

[Toms306]

Been up on the ramp, cant find any play anywhere. Balls. Bit lost now, we're thinking the only thing left is the actual rack which could be worn away

Did you get the tracking checked?

Edit - Lol, I see above, man Im tired tonight lol.

[DazzaHDI]

Mine feels exactly the same!! Mine probably isn't as mint as yours, I already know of problems that need sorting but the loose steering you say your feeling, you may just be fretting over nothing? If everything is solid, where it should be and doing what it should be doing then she's fine isn't she? If it still drives and gets you from a to b then nothing to worry about is there

[pugtk]

its a 306,you'll have this problem this week and another problem in a few more weeks..!!!!

Enjoy.. haha

inner track rod ends, or rack/pas pump

[Pugmarshall]

If it's anything like how mine felt, then it can be very unnerving! My car felt like a poverty spec AX, always wanted to turn more/oversteer and it never felt connected to the road. It wasn't so bad if I was really hard pushing it, or going really slow... it was more the middle ground 'spirited driving' that was the worst.

[Tom]

Would changing power steering fluid change anything or no? Cant get the tracking done for another week yet, sod paying for it anywhere else!

[Tom]

Right i need some help with this, still feels wank, debating getting rid after tonight.

Its such a hard thing to explain without letting someone drive it. Could the pump cause issues?

[Toms306]

Have you tried the tracking yet?

Maybe take the aux belt off and go for a quick drive? If its better then the pumps at fault surely...

[Tom]

Need to wait til after half term to get the tracking (going back to college to use there 3d one, for free) but it doesnt feel like just one wheel slightly off, it feels like the steering wheel isnt connected to the drive wheels and when i hit bumps and things it pulls the car around like the steering wheel does nothing :/ Its just scary, gives me no confidence in the car. I got worried and took it to a garage and stood with the mechanic, we pulled and shook the shit out of everything and he said theres no play in any of it. And if its all in my head then my minds more powerful than i thought lol

[cwspellowe]

Could be something's bent, if one side's more cambered than the other you'll get interesting steering off bumps in the road. Is the ARB bolted down tight and drop links in good condition? I run no ARB and the wheels act independently, everything's solid but it gives it a weird wheels-are-pulling-in-opposite-directions feeling.

Also check the subframe's not moving around at all and as said, that the rack is bolted down tight.

[Tom]

Right im going to write a f*cking list get it on the ramp and make sure everything is perfect!
-ARB clamped down tight and correctly.
-Steering rack bolted down tight, check for bent shit.
-Check all subframe bolts are tight.
-Dont kill the car until tracking is checked (take sledge just incase)
-Have a listen to the PAS pump and check its working.

Thats it so far. Will get in touch with my mechanical friend tomorrow morning.

[Tom]

Now off to the garage, i hope something cheap and easily fixed is absolutely shagged!