I find it hard to believe that a lack of roll bar would cause a car to roll! It may have been a factor but the guy must have be driving like an idiot. Some people remove the links to 'slam' the car, if some vehicles are lowered too much the anti roll bar or links can foul the chassis or other components in some places.
02-11-2016, 02:47 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016, 03:18 PM by DeeTurbo.)
It turns out he had lowered the car and was waiting for some adjustable ones to turn up.
(02-11-2016, 02:37 PM)bilboaustin Wrote: I find it hard to believe that a lack of roll bar would cause a car to roll! It may have been a factor but the guy must have be driving like an idiot. Some people remove the links to 'slam' the car, if some vehicles are lowered too much the anti roll bar or links can foul the chassis or other components in some places.
Yes a slammed car will usually have bugger all roll and you might be able to get away without having an ARB but this wasn't.
The lack off stability from not having them made the car in to a cruise ditch finder missile.
(02-11-2016, 02:37 PM)bilboaustin Wrote: I find it hard to believe that a lack of roll bar would cause a car to roll!
Sorry you find it hard to believe that the removal of an ANTI Roll Bar (a component whose sole purpose is to stop body roll) would cause a vehicle to roll!?!?!?
I appreciate it might not cause it to roll over on it's own but additional body roll if the car was already being driven close to the limit could be the straw that broke the donkeys back so to speak.
You sir are probably one of the people who shouldn't be modifying cars.
It is possible for the ARB to drop without the drop links and could have dug into the tarmac causing the accident.
Looks like it was a non car person wrote that - "The brake pedals were worn so badly that the brake pedal had to be pressed "pretty much down to the floor" before it began to stop the car."
[emoji23]I didn't mean to upset anyone I was just giving my opinion! One of the best handing cars I've ever driven didn't have anti roll bars (mk2 fiesta) that was the most predictable car I've ever driven.
dont worry about dum dum. he needs to be nicer to new members.
yes i wouldnt expect a lack of drop links in a car driven sensibly to roll over either however if someone was ragging their car because its lowered now innit bruv... then i can easily see someone rolling it.
we all have to start somewhere but its clear that some people dont have a basic understanding or the respect needed to carry out their own car work.
Thanks for the kind reply Eeyore. I don't agree with the removal on anti roll bars on a standard car that's designed to have one, or 'slamming' a car for that matter (utterly pointless if you as me) As I said the lack of roll bar 'contributed' to the cause but I still think it was the idiot driving the car that caused it to roll.
(02-11-2016, 04:49 PM)bilboaustin Wrote: Thanks for the kind reply Eeyore. I don't agree with the removal on anti roll bars on a standard car that's designed to have one, or 'slamming' a car for that matter (utterly pointless if you as me) As I said the lack of roll bar 'contributed' to the cause but I still think it was the idiot driving the car that caused it to roll.
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That's possibly the most sensible explanation - it contributed, not caused. The cause was entirely the driver.
I've met plenty of people who honestly think an anti-roll bar is there to stop the car rolling over...
As for removal, there are a few cars that drive and handle better with the factory arb removed (mainly rear wheel drive, and mainly from the 70s though )
But yeah, plenty of people lash up cars (and bikes as it happens) horrifically and then get all confused when they fall off the road.
02-11-2016, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016, 07:12 PM by toseland.)
(02-11-2016, 04:06 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote:
(02-11-2016, 02:37 PM)bilboaustin Wrote: I find it hard to believe that a lack of roll bar would cause a car to roll!
Sorry you find it hard to believe that the removal of an ANTI Roll Bar (a component whose sole purpose is to stop body roll) would cause a vehicle to roll!?!?!?
I appreciate it might not cause it to roll over on it's own but additional body roll if the car was already being driven close to the limit could be the straw that broke the donkeys back so to speak.
You sir are probably one of the people who shouldn't be modifying cars.
It is possible for the ARB to drop without the drop links and could have dug into the tarmac causing the accident.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would try to drive their car though a 6foot deep puddle and expect it to work healthily on the other side...
http://306oc.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?...lye+puddle
We commonly remove the arb from Land Rover she and other 4x4s. But drive accordingly and these generally have lift Kira and huge tyres to help with the already shot handling..
02-11-2016, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016, 07:22 PM by Rippthrough.)
That crash has nothing to do with not having the front anti-roll bar on. Nothing. The vehicle's weight transfer laterally will be so close to the same with and without it that it's not worth considering. You have the same effect fitting a stiffer rear arb as you do removing the front one, they're there to balance handling characteristics, you actually have more grip and steering authority mid corner without a front bar, not less.
It rolled because a bellend was driving.
"People modding cars that don't know what things do" seems to apply to a large proportion of people commenting tbfh.
Custom roll cages/shiny suspension bits/general fabrication work undertaken, PM me.
Top engine mount repair/reinforcement/chocking for cracked chassis and high powered cars, drive in, drive out, 2 hour turnaround.
(02-11-2016, 02:37 PM)bilboaustin Wrote: I find it hard to believe that a lack of roll bar would cause a car to roll!
Sorry you find it hard to believe that the removal of an ANTI Roll Bar (a component whose sole purpose is to stop body roll) would cause a vehicle to roll!?!?!?
I appreciate it might not cause it to roll over on it's own but additional body roll if the car was already being driven close to the limit could be the straw that broke the donkeys back so to speak.
You sir are probably one of the people who shouldn't be modifying cars.
It is possible for the ARB to drop without the drop links and could have dug into the tarmac causing the accident.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would try to drive their car though a 6foot deep puddle and expect it to work healthily on the other side...
(02-11-2016, 07:17 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: That crash has nothing to do with not having the front anti-roll bar on. Nothing. The vehicle's weight transfer laterally will be so close to the same with and without it that it's not worth considering. You have the same effect fitting a stiffer rear arb as you do removing the front one, they're there to balance handling characteristics, you actually have more grip and steering authority mid corner without a front bar, not less.
(02-11-2016, 07:17 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: That crash has nothing to do with not having the front anti-roll bar on. Nothing. The vehicle's weight transfer laterally will be so close to the same with and without it that it's not worth considering. You have the same effect fitting a stiffer rear arb as you do removing the front one, they're there to balance handling characteristics, you actually have more grip and steering authority mid corner without a front bar, not less.
It rolled because a bellend was driving.
"People modding cars that don't know what things do" seems to apply to a large proportion of people commenting tbfh.
The fact this guy changed his suspension by lowering it, disconnected anti roll bar and then driving the car that has now got a totally different handling characteristics didn't help.
With the anti roll bar disconnected the car would be less balanced, if it were connected it would have given him a fighting chance to keep the car in control.
02-11-2016, 10:35 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016, 10:37 PM by Rippthrough.)
Bollocks.
I ran without mine for a long time and it'd run rings around most of the cars on here handling wise. He would have had more front grip, not less.
Custom roll cages/shiny suspension bits/general fabrication work undertaken, PM me.
Top engine mount repair/reinforcement/chocking for cracked chassis and high powered cars, drive in, drive out, 2 hour turnaround.
I ran without mine for a long time and it'd run rings around most of the cars on here handling wise. He would have had more front grip, not less.
Doubtful he would have been driving knowing that, doubtful he's planned much into the mods being undertaken. Much more likely leaving it off caused an unexpected change in handling (or just driving like a complete knob) unexpected changes can be better or worse, but if you cant feel it coming it's irrelevant. Loads more grip than expected turn too much and kit the kerb and roll, loads less grip than expected slide out and hit the other kerb...
probably one of the best handling pugs in the world.
no roll bars in sight, no "hard shocks" just group A bilstein inserts and 300 lb front springs, not sure on rears but its not heavy there so probably not very high at all.
02-11-2016, 10:47 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016, 10:53 PM by Rippthrough.)
As I said, entirely due to driving like a bellend.
It's not something that would give a snap change in grip, etc, it would be more progressive than with it, not less.
If the beam was f*cked, or the wishbone bushes, or he'd chopped the springs or fitted some chinese shitty coilovers that are oversprung and underdamped, you might have a point, as they could make it very twitchy. But you still have to be driving like a bellend first.
Custom roll cages/shiny suspension bits/general fabrication work undertaken, PM me.
Top engine mount repair/reinforcement/chocking for cracked chassis and high powered cars, drive in, drive out, 2 hour turnaround.
by the sound of it he ran out of talent, ran out of road, hence the bent wishbone, the end of the road happened to have a drop so it teetered over tortoise style.
ive seen 205's roll WITH standard roll bars used, epic mix of stock suspension and slicks.
i think its fair to say that running no ARB on a tuned lowered and adapted tarmac race car is one thing, which already has a widened track by the looks of it and as you say 300lb front springs which are stiffer than standard anyway, being driven mostly on glass flat race courses wouldn't be too much of an issue additionally you would be expecting the handling to be precise and know how it handles without ARBs.
however removing the ARB from a standard road car then driving like a tit, will likely exaggerate body roll to a point where the car becomes critically unbalanced and falls over.. it doesn't take much to roll a car but the proper application of force and direction, and anything that accentuates or makes body roll easier further helps this phenomenon, a dip in the road on an off camber corner,
People are probably right with this.. too much beans and not enough skill has caused him to run out of road, but it looks like he probably was going sideways and the passenger side wheel has dug in and pulled the car over.. as welshpug says this was probably a slight decline too further adding to the problems he was already having.
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