MG ZR: Cams & Maps

[lolsteve]

All done! Spent more time at work today thinking about doing this than actually ..working
Was thinking it was going to be a couple of days work as in today being prep and tomorrow trying again & again...hour and a half later it's all done.
Trick was to lock the flywheel and what do you know i think I hadnt been making the exhaust->crank stretch tight enough. Idle is not the smoothest but then its an old engine with a re profiled exhaust cam and timing advance dowels. Perhaps fiddling the idle ignition could help smooth it out or just give it it's long overdue service

https://youtu.be/uD_d-F9t16Y

[procta]

from what I have been told, these engines are not really smooth idlers, that was coming from my engine tuner.

[lolsteve]

Good to hear Blueys engine was smoother but then I've never seen this engine run in a good condition "stock" as it was in bad nick when i got it and just fitted the cam/dowels so oh well. So long as it wrecks rowells rallye I dont mind

[procta]

Good to hear Blueys engine was smoother but then I've never seen this engine run in a good condition "stock" as it was in bad nick when i got it and just fitted the cam/dowels so oh well. So long as it wrecks rowells rallye I dont mind

mine idles like yours tbh, I think its just the vvc system giving them a little bit of a rough idle.

[Poodle]

It's a k-series, they're broken from the factory. If it's overdue a service you'll probably find some decent fresh oil and good filters make a surprising difference.

[lolsteve]

Ah good, fitted the alternator belt today as yesterday was just to get it running. Car seems smooth (er) than before and the belt whine is greatly reduced. Perhaps it needs loosening a bit but it's good enough for me for now

Alex you dick althoogh probably not far off being true
I've cleaned out the k&n filter, with it being enclosed you can't see how nasty they get. Was covered in all sorts and the water was all gritty and black.
Got a bosch oil filter & shell oil to put in this weekend, will hopefully also get the pop & bang map on to see how it sounds on the stock system

[procta]

pop and bang map lol,

[lolsteve]

Perhaps my terminology is wrong, overrun pop?

[Poodle]

You love it!

Pop and bang map will probably kill your cat if you still have it, should be a lot of fun in doing so though lol.

[Matt-Rallye]

Good to hear Blueys engine was smoother but then I've never seen this engine run in a good condition "stock" as it was in bad nick when i got it and just fitted the cam/dowels so oh well. So long as it wrecks rowells rallye I dont mind

My mates 160 couldnt get near my rallye. and his has cams, full stainless exhaust, induction & omex amongst other things.

Problem you have going up against a 6 / rallye is you havent got the gear ratios even if you have got the power.

[procta]

Good to hear Blueys engine was smoother but then I've never seen this engine run in a good condition "stock" as it was in bad nick when i got it and just fitted the cam/dowels so oh well. So long as it wrecks rowells rallye I dont mind

My mates 160 couldnt get near my rallye. and his has cams, full stainless exhaust, induction & omex amongst other things.

Problem you have going up against a 6 / rallye is you havent got the gear ratios even if you have got the power.

hahaha I bet your eyes are watering now eh, after reading that eh steve
mat I have been telling him what the problems are with these, and that's they are too heavy.

[Matt-Rallye]

too much weight, not enough power and crap gearing / handling.

I admire steve though because he knows that with enough time, patience, cash and skill... all of those issues can be overcome. Keep cracking steve

[lolsteve]

Well I'll just keep on trying until it works...on that note I got an error code today. P0170 fuel trim bank malfunction.
I had put the overrun pop map on this weekend but took it back off as it needed fine tuning and I dont want to be making too much noise when using it as a daily.
Came on while I had left it idling waiting for the oil to warm up. Checking the fuel trims the long term was sat at -13.3% so it was trying its hardest to cut back on the fuel.
I had noticed it smelt fuely when I first started it up after doing the belts , wonder if the ecu had reset and was readjusting.
Recently fitted a stock vvc manifold so perhaps the o2 sensor on that is duff

[C2K]

The K series cambelt and my T series cambelt were the easiest belts ever in the history of 16V engines. What guide had you been reading that didn't indicate you needed to lock the crank? Let me guess, you just buzzed off the crank pulley bolt with a gun.. You lock the three main pulleys and adjust the tensioner - does it get any easier than that??

I distinctly remember doing it on my ex's 214 and removing the starter to lock the crank, only for the positive lead stud to shear.

The idle sounds just fine there to me, from what I recall. K series sounds lovely.

[lolsteve]

They are very easy now I know what I'm doing. Unsure how I did them in the past, might have just gotten lucky but now I can whip off the belt and have it all redone in an hour including set up etc


I'm still not happy with the idle/running though. There is something wrong somewhere I'm sure of it. Swapped out the coilpacks and o2 sensor for spares with minimal improvement.
Plugged in the obd reader and watched the o2 sensor voltage / fuel trims.
Voltage seems to be hanging around the 0.8v area (rich) and the long term fuel trim was a good -8% while the engine was warming up (1000rpm) then when it went closed loop it rose up to -12.5%  . Was at -13.3 yesterday and I think that was the maximum it would go hence the EML light and code P0170

[lolsteve]

So laugh if you want but I'm doing the head gasket again.

It's not that it's failed so much in that I used the wrong one when i did it last. The liners were flat with the block and you're not suppose to use the MLS gasket but the original style one...unfortunate I didn't have the right one at the time so had to make do with the MLS. I also didn't check the bolts properly and just put them back in without checking tolerances.
So this time I've ordered KAMAX bolts & the latest PAYEN gasket so I can be happy with the quality of parts.

At this rate I really will become a headgasket expert

[Poodle]

Fair play for cracking on and redoing it, best way imo as now you'll be sure it's not out-of-tolerance basics causing other issues. You're going to know this engine inside out at this rate!

[lolsteve]

Yeah it's always been a niggle at the back of my mind but since the car has run and not mixed oil/water or overheated I assumed i'd gotten away with it. Dodgey compression seems to be a good cause of a misfiring idle although I'd put it down to the exhaust cam.
I've tried 3 different (used) lambda sensors but they all read the same. Connected up the reader to my friends vvc and was happy with his numbers (sensor voltage, stft, ltft) so there is something wrong with mine for sure. Will know when the head is off I guess and have a new lambda to fit when it's done

[jammapic]

It seems strange that the wrong head gasket would make it rich though? I suppose if it's not burning correctly, the mixture out the tailpipe will be unburned and rich with fuel.

You can always also adjust the target lambda the ecu is aiming for. Stock for emissions will be lambda:1 but if you run slightly richer than that, say down at 13:1 AFR it always smooths out a slightly lumpy idle.

I suspect the idle is to do with your exhaust cam, more duration does that... Try richening up the target mixture and it will stock the fuel trims pulling it lean too!

JP

[lolsteve]

Yeah I think it's just not getting full compression on one or more of the cylinders, incorrect compression resulting in poor burn?. My ebay compression tester may let me know if thats the case unless it's broken (being £12 it wouldnt surprise)

Will need to find the target lambda settings, remember looking for them as a table a while ago but didnt spot anything. Still need to get on a dyno and confirm fuel maps really but everytime I put money aside to get it roll'd something breaks

[procta]

just pull the fuckin lump out and drop a T series engine in it Turbo power!!

[lolsteve]

Also looking more into bigger brake setups. There seems to be two "cheap" options.
1) EP3 calipers bolt straight on but the discs need the holes redrilling. Result 300mm discs
2) MG 120 Calipers with Mini John Cooper works discs Result 316mm discs but I think slighty smaller pad size

Friend with a ZS is going for the option 2 route so will be interesting to see the results
http://www.darkicedesigns.com/en/brake-u...ipers.html

[procta]

Also looking more into bigger brake setups. There seems to be two "cheap" options.
1) EP3 calipers bolt straight on but the discs need the holes redrilling. Result 300mm discs
2) MG 120 Calipers with Mini John Cooper works discs Result 316mm discs but I think slighty smaller pad size

Friend with a ZS is going for the option 2 route so will be interesting to see the results
http://www.darkicedesigns.com/en/brake-u...ipers.html

stop fannying on with brake setups, and just go T series will ya

[jammapic]

Power is nothing without control...

[lolsteve]

It's k or nothing! Can lift the engine with gear using only 2 guys.... assume that's lightweight

[lolsteve]

oh way to having a new gasket and a running car again. However..

When I dropping the head back down I saw a bit of oil drip from the head onto the gasket out the corner of my eye. 
In my desperation to get the engine back together and headbolts in I whacked the bolts in and torqued them up as was getting tired (back was hurting from trying to lift the head while bent over)  and annoyed of the local kids all stood around asking me questions, touching my stuff and just being irritating little...

Is this likely to have rendered all the work for naught? The engine is halfway to reassembly as belts are on
Or will the clamping force be enough to squeeze out any oil between gasket and surface 

Very disappointed in myself for rushing the job as wanted to do it properly but the lack of garage means I cant spend more time on stuff

Also if an engine hasnt been turned on (eg no heat cycle) could the gasket be reused? this gasket type doesnt seem to compress much or at least not as much as the mls.

[HDi--Power]

Depends how much oil, one drop on a fibre gasket wont matter but a good bit probably will. You definitely couldn't remove the head and re use the gasket once torqued up but by the looks of those valves might be worth removing it and cleaning and re lapping in all the valves, they look crusty out...... Two birds with one stone

[Piggy]

Yeah that head wants a good clean up buddy!

As said, no reuse. Sucks a bit pal, hope its ok.

[lolsteve]

Weak.

Going to try it as it is and if not satisfied will order another gasket to do it again as only £25 for a gasket

Also in an attempt to modernise it (being a mk2 after all) I've gotten a flip key conversion. A subtle mod but something different 

[HDi--Power]

Given its mostly apart would you not just do it correctly now? spend a day removing and lapping the valves and cleaning head properly, be very surprised if those valves aren't leaking, if even a small bit.