Harness bar fitting

[Jonny81191]

Don't see why you couldn't use a standard belt with my Cobra monacos if you unbolted the one end to feed it through the hole close to the door.

This. If the belt is routed properly so it comes up tight against you, there's no reason I can think of not to use it in buckets.

[kentiiboii]

Soo... has anyone come to the conclusion of where best place to mount a harness bar, other than a cage?
:-)

[welshpug]

in the bin!!

[Piggy]

Soo... has anyone come to the conclusion of where best place to mount a harness bar, other than a cage?
:-)

I'll put up some useful pics next week fella. I finished mine today, started painting it. With it bolted in, I rekon you could lift the whole car with it


Standard seatbelts wouldnt work with my buckets, the shoulder support area would get in the way. remember I real weedy, so I dont "fill" the bucket much

[kentiiboii]

Soo... has anyone come to the conclusion of where best place to mount a harness bar, other than a cage?
:-)

I'll put up some useful pics next week fella. I finished mine today, started painting it. With it bolted in, I rekon you could lift the whole car with it [emoji38]


Standard seatbelts wouldnt work with my buckets, the shoulder support area would get in the way. remember I real weedy, so I dont "fill" the bucket much [emoji38]

Nice one would appreciate that.
I've started stripping the car out today, struggling with the front carpet under the dash.
It's stuck on the heater thing, ive taken screws and thing out and still no movement.

[Niall]

The thing that concerns me is if you had a crash at 70mph, you're body weight of 70-80kg for example would end up becoming well over a ton during impact. You sure that the fixing points of that bar can take that force?

[Jonny81191]

Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?

[Niall]

Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?

Chemical metal should be used. Would be much safer. Everyone knows that chemical metal is stronger than a weld

[kentiiboii]

Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?

Chemical metal should be used. Would be much safer. Everyone knows that chemical metal is stronger than a weld

Chemical metal is the bomb! Welded half the car up with that!

[Jonny81191]

Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?

Chemical metal should be used. Would be much safer. Everyone knows that chemical metal is stronger than a weld

Oh yeah, and tbh some of the "professional welding" I've seen just backs that up

[adam b]

But it's considerably more dear than gaffer tape. And you can make harnesses with it too

[Nathan1305]

So on a serious note with roll cages. My new car has a welded half cage, could I eventually weld in the front hoops and door bars like the pic? Personally I can't see why not because it would be welded in just like if I had the full cage to begin with 

[attachment=23213]

[puglove]

I think people are seriously under estimating the strength of the correct type of tube. The stuff i used is the is the stuff we use for land rover roll cages and we pull that 2.5T land rovers upgenst trees with twin motor giggle pin winches with a 6T pulling power and stall the winches and single tubes dont bend

Mounted to a structural part of the car with additional bracing is more than capable of withstand impact loads of a crash .

I will say though the ones that people bolt through the wheel arch are only as strong as the sheet metal of the arch and prob would pull away from their mountings

[Niall]

Its not the bar people are debating. Its the mounting points. In order the the harnesses to be at the correct angle, the bar needs to be at rear arch level and we all know thats only 1mm(ish)steel.
TBH im not a structural engineer. You never know, it may be fine but it just doesn't look it!

[Seb_Ryan]

Its not the bar people are debating. Its the mounting points. In order the the harnesses to be at the correct angle, the bar needs to be at rear arch level and we all know thats only 1mm(ish)steel.
TBH im not a structural engineer. You never know, it may be fine but it just doesn't look it!

Every rally car ive ever been in (built 2) they always have plates welded, like a wedge of cheese below the mounting points, then the cage welded to that

[Niall]

Its not the bar people are debating. Its the mounting points. In order the the harnesses to be at the correct angle, the bar needs to be at rear arch level and we all know thats only 1mm(ish)steel.
TBH im not a structural engineer. You never know, it may be fine but it just doesn't look it!

Every rally car ive ever been in (built 2) they always have plates welded, like a wedge of cheese below the mounting points, then the cage welded to that

Not talking about cages though
Talking about a harness bar on its own

[puglove]

Alot of race / rally. (Like pro series wrc/touring car etc) use level mounted harness

[adam b]

Yes but they design the shell to cope with it

[Piggy]

Yes but they design the shell to cope with it

erm, not quite. 

Most lower class rally cars simply have bolt in or weld in cages, totally standard unmolested shell/chassis.

And if you ever get a chance, have a gander at the last fiesta R2....the cages welds were horrific

[welshpug]

hahahaah.

you haven't seen how much people plough into the "lower class" cars.


those cages will have welded in harness bars BTW, not some shonky piece of scaffold tube on the rear quarters.

[cully]

no such thing as lower class rallying they all have to be built to the MSA blue book rules and then pass MSA build inspection before being issued with a log book which is needed before competing and then they have to pass Scrutineer for each event

when i was crewing for a rallys we regulaly had things picked up on scrutineering that had to be sorted before a pass was issued

[adam b]

Mine would be classed as that then...

---

It's an entry level car, in fact doesn't meet the criteria yet by some margin!

[Piggy]

hahahaah.

you haven't seen how much people plough into the "lower class" cars.


those cages will have welded in harness bars BTW, not some shonky piece of scaffold tube on the rear quarters.

I didn't say they wouldn't have.

Having built a couple and been on the crew I have a rough idea.

---

no such thing as lower class rallying they all have to be built to the MSA blue book rules and then pass MSA build inspection before being issued with a log book which is needed before competing  and then they have to pass Scrutineer  for each event

when i was crewing for a rallys we regulaly had things picked up on scrutineering that had to be sorted before a pass was issued

see above.

Been there done that too....including arguing that the car IS blue, just that the sponsor has a white emblem so it looks like the car is white and blue. I had to argue that till I was ruddy blue.

But there IS lower classes fella. 

Top JWRC and WRC will have full welded in cage, modified strut tops etc etc etc.

The lower classes will simply have a FIA/MSA approved bolt in cage as there is no need nor requirement for the above.

---

Mine would be classed as that then...

---

It's an entry level car, in fact doesn't meet the criteria yet by some margin!

Looks nice setup, seems very narrow mind. 
And despite it being a weld in and top job, as you say, doesn't meet the criteria of a rally car by some way, despite some of them having off the shelf bolt in cages.

[welshpug]

the cage meets the criteria certainly, its just the car hasn't the suspension or guards to cope with rallying yet.

cage is not narrow, its as wide as it needs to be, it is one of the "lower classes" as you deem it, its fully welded in, gusseted to the A and B-pillars, double door bars, bottom of main hoop to rear legs linked, welded to both beam mounting points. and a full double cross main hoop and rear legs.

[Piggy]

I can see where it's welded and what it has.... I have eyes weirdly enough.

Still quite narrow as cages full go.

[zx_volcane]

you've built rally cars?

[Piggy]

you've built rally cars?

A Ford Racing Puma up to MSA regs... but then my mate got moved to Ely and I got married. (now sold)

And the same friend and I helped build a fiesta ST rally car. Then were on the crew. (For Louise Cook, now on the bigger circuits)

Obviously not single handed!  And thankfully not out of my pocket

I learnt more on the team with that fiesta than I probably did during all my college training.

(annoyingly still not had anyone properly teach me to weld!)

[zx_volcane]

so why are you / everyone arguing about harness bars - surely if you've got the experience and know what you're doing, crack on?

also, need to see pics of this fiesta now

[Piggy]

so why are you / everyone arguing about harness bars - surely if you've got the experience and know what you're doing, crack on?

also, need to see pics of this fiesta now

funny you say that...

just going through her website for some...

theres not many. She had another fiesta and now has a R2 I think.

just messaged her to see if she had some old pics. They just come back from NZ

[welshpug]

what do you mean narrow?!

every weld in 306 cage ive seen look pretty damn similar, including the ones in the 306 maxi, which if you are too young to remember them were capable of being quicker than a wrc car at the time in the right hands.