Harness bar fitting

[kentiiboii]

I know everyone has different opinions on where to have your harness attached to.

My plan is to fit a harness bar into my gti6 and I just wanna know where people think is best place?

I know angles play a big part in safety.

[Eeyore]

It needs to be welded in not bolted in! Its thin metal at the back so weld all the way round. Ive heard that bolts will just cut through the metal in a crash.

[7057sam]

See people weld a plate in the middle of the arch then a bar across which also braces the rear nicely 

[attachment=23144]

[Stef205]

Technically they should be 0-30% lower than your shoulders. Personally I wouldn't fit a harness bar anywhere else than to a cage as the body isn't as structurally sound. If you do go through the body you'll need a spreader plate front and behind the pannel.

[Jonny81191]

Get something like this or fit a cage IMO.

[kentiiboii]

I do eventually plan for a cage, but atm I don't have the money for one.
My plan was to weld the bar in.

[Jonny81191]

So leave it until you get the cage in?

[welshpug]

So leave it until you get the cage in?

this.

your cage is the best place to attach harnesses to.

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without a cage I would not consider the thought of a bucket seat and harness.

[Piggy]

see you have the usual "you need this" chaps but then when you do "do this" the same chaps saying you can't and its not possible.

Puglove has done a decent job of this as have many others.

I will be doing similar. a 48mm steel tube, welded to two plates, bolted in on the C pillars on the two bolts either side where the seatbelt is bolted to normally.

A cage is great, but as with others £600 on a cage isnt going to happen.

Plus a bar in the right place and built well is 100 times better than bolting it down at an angle to the lower passenger seatbelt bolts which everyone stupidly does

[Stef205]

see you have the usual "you need this" chaps but then when you do "do this" the same chaps saying you can't and its not possible.

Puglove has done a decent job of this as have many others.

I will be doing similar. a 48mm steel tube, welded to two plates, bolted in on the C pillars on the two bolts either side where the seatbelt is bolted to normally.

A cage is great, but as with others £600 on a cage isnt going to happen.

Plus a bar in the right place and built well is 100 times better than bolting it down at an angle to the lower passenger seatbelt bolts which everyone stupidly does

no one said you cant do it, its not advised it is what was said also it should be cds tubing not any old tube. Just because others have done it and it "seems a decent job" doesnt mean it will hold up in a accident.

[Dum-Dum]

Think if I was doing it without a cage I'd be plating the whole arch both sides and then welding and bolting the bar to that. Also you could make up some angled bars to go from the rear beam mounting bolts to the middle of the harness bar and the arches.

[Nathan1305]

see you have the usual "you need this" chaps but then when you do "do this" the same chaps saying you can't and its not possible.

Puglove has done a decent job of this as have many others.

I will be doing similar. a 48mm steel tube, welded to two plates, bolted in on the C pillars on the two bolts either side where the seatbelt is bolted to normally.

A cage is great, but as with others £600 on a cage isnt going to happen.

Plus a bar in the right place and built well is 100 times better than bolting it down at an angle to the lower passenger seatbelt bolts which everyone stupidly does

no one said you cant do it, its not advised it is what was said also it should be cds tubing not any old tube. Just because others have done it and it "seems a decent job" doesnt mean it will hold up in a accident.

Is this the tubing I need for the harness bars on my cage?

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/cds...wwod4o8A9Q

[Stef205]

yes 38mm cds is the stuff

[Piggy]

you are all making me nervous now tbh. But that is possibly a good thing.

it is safety we are discussing.

I went to local metal merchants and explained my purposes and wanted the cds 38mm, they provided 48mm though... will that be ok!?

Like dumdums idea, I too will be adding a couple braces to it, going slightly forward and down from the bar, with intent to provide extra strength.

All that combined imho is much better than the one or two bolts that usually are used to bolt a standard seatbelt in!?

[welshpug]

no cage = no buckets = no harnesses.

diameter means nothing if wall thickness is not sufficient.

[kentiiboii]

Might see about adding a few bars to strengthen it up then.
But I was thinking where seat belt bolts up as that had to be strong, because the seat belts anyway.
Otherwise surely they wouldn't fit belts to it.

[Stef205]

Then the bar will be to high and the harnesses won't provide the support

[Piggy]

Then the bar will be to high and the harnesses won't provide the support

The two bolts there on the C pillar, with a thick plate in place and bolted, the 48mm (2.5mm wall thickness) tube can be put level with the harness holes in the seats...so the harness would be level.

My plan, as seems dumdums too if he was to do so, is two bars from centre of the tube down to the lower seat mountings.

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no cage = no buckets = no harnesses.

= perfect world
I will take a well secured and built harness bar with buckets in a stripped out car over a floppy seatbelt with a likely to fail pretensioner and unsupportive standard seats anyday.
Plus at least the OP, Puglove and myself are trying to come up with a safe solution over most of the muppets that bolt the harness straight down to the lower rear passenger seatbelt mounts.

[welshpug]

the problem is that without a cage but with buckets you will be f*cked if you roll it.

always cage first or nothing.

[Piggy]

the problem is that without a cage but with buckets you will be f*cked if you roll it.

always cage first or nothing.

How so welshy? 

I just don't get that!? 

[welshpug]

you cant move with the harness, therefore when (not if) the roof comes in, hey presto broken neck.

[kentiiboii]

Cage will be fitted later on in the year, but atm I have more important things to think about first.
So a harness bar will have to do, it's either that or bolt them to seat belt mounts.

[Piggy]

you cant move with the harness, therefore when (not if) the roof comes in, hey presto broken neck.

I get the thinking there, totally, but theres going to be similar issues with a standard seatbelt. IE, drawbacks vs harness. 

Still feel happier strapped in than half my body flopping around in a standard seat belt IF it were to roll.




Whilst on the subject...
anyone know where I can get a half cage??

Full cage for £600+ isnt going to be happening

[welshpug]

just leave it all till you can afford it, its not worth doing half measures.

[Piggy]

I never will be willing to throw £600+ for a full cage in any 306 I own.

Rather half measure of safety than none

[Niall]

I do see Mei's point and it makes perfect sense. I also don't see how you're so unconfident in standard seat belts Piggy? I have never seen an inertia reel fail. They are silly simple things so theres not really anything to fail.
A bit of movement in a seat can be a good thing but its all dependant on the use. If you have a cage, you can be strapped in solid because you know that no matter what happens to that car, you're still in your scaffold safe box. In a standard car, we've all seen what happens. Even brand new cars just don't have the strengthening that if you roll them at any great deal of speed, will stop the roof caving in. In this situation, id rather be in a standard seat belt. You're not going to come out from behind it, you're not going to end up in the passenger foot well but you do have the room to be moved if it really came to it in the accident unlike in a harnessed bucket where you effectively become part of the structure of the car. And I'm sure i don't have to paint that picture!

[Piggy]

I'm not, at all

But a track/weekend fun car is very unlikely to have standard seats... and buckets just dont work with standard belts

[Niall]

Depends on the seats. I would agree 306 seats aren't supportive that much but i would never need bucket seats over my RX8 ones. The only time i would get buckets would be if the car became a track car in which case i would be buying them for safety, along with harnesses and a cage lol

[Dum-Dum]

I accept what is being said about rolling cars and caving the roof but most cars that roll don't crush the oem roll hoop so buckets and harnesses are still a safe option. IMO anyone reading this discussion probably has a good idea of what could potentially happen and what might happen in various types of crashes so if they still want buckets and harnesses without a cage then lets make that option as safe as possible.

Standard parts of the car are only designed to take load one way and can be incredibly weak if hit I the wrong direction. You can over brace things but I'd be wanting to be making the bar like my life depended on it.

[adam b]

Piggy it's not necessarily that much, remember my entire shell with cage cost £600.

And the car is sooooo much better with one in + your confidence is much higher. I'd not have a 306 without one now.

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Meantime use a cg lock on the standard belt - it really works very well.
Don't see why you couldn't use a standard belt with my Cobra monacos if you unbolted the one end to feed it through the hole close to the door.