Ph2 IR central locking conversion to RF

[cully]

So one of these keys won't just work with a stock ph3 then...? It uses its own unit that piggybacks onto the main one?

yes correct it is a seperate box that triggers the exsisting working system via the door key lock wires

[cully]

for a long time now i have wanted my alarm to arm when i lock the doors with the new RF fobs and to be able to disarm it too

so today i have been out and solved the last piece of the Puzzel

on investigation and a lot of pobe ing of wires i found that the alarm was armed by
short 0v pulses on wires
8618 (arm wire)
8617 (disarm wire)

realising the door lock control is done on 0v pulses too
6251-6252 (Lock wire)
6231-6232 (Unlock wire)

i tryed linking the
arm wire to the lock wire
disarm wire to the unlock wire

this half worked
i could Arm the sytem ok but as soon as i disarmed the system the alarm would sound!

head scratch time.....

i found the disarm pulse was too long at 0v
so now to work out how to shorten a long 0v pulse

my answer to this was to install a capacitor which worked!

so now i have an IR lock/alarm system that works as std
but i also have an rf lock/alarm sysem that works as std too

Happy bunny

picture of the wire connectons at the central locking box

[attachment=12592]

[Mitch1793]

Ahh!, i've just posted this as a question! so if i could use this..
does anyone have any idea where the Central Locking control box would be on a 5 door Phase 2? mine wont have the alarm box seeing as it doesn't have the shock sensor or siren or anything.
Hope someone can help.

[rocker8742]

I'd imagine it would be in the same place as cullys was at the start of this thread under the rear bench, it can be awkward to spot if you've not seen one before thougj

[mcvite]

Congratulations cully in what you have achieved in doing this conversion,you deserve a pat on the back for resolving this,well done

[sparkie1984]

This is amazing mate! well done. now all I need is to find someone to do this for me when I get my 6!

[kev1234]

Great post cully, very helpful! I got my kit and am planning to fit it this week.

Only problem is my car's a 5 door Pug, '98 XSi and the wiring is different.. I'm trying to locate wires for the indicators but the alarm box obviously isn't in the osr panel as it's a door..

The wires from the central locking control box seem to run down the centre console so I'm assuming the alarm box is somewhere behind the dashboard??

Before I start ripping panels out does anyone know where to look? Or a better place to get connection to the indicators?

[kentiiboii]

I'll have to think about this my self.

[kev1234]

...i've checked the haynes manual and had a fairly good search over google but nothing confirmed.

I also pulled the clock panel off as i read a post that said the box was there, and one that said it was under the front left wheel arch.. Couldn't see it though.. Any other ideas?

[kev1234]

Just fitted it, works like a charm! And so easy, especially with cully's instructions.. thanks again!!

Still haven't found the alarm box though so don't have any flashing lights as yet.. Still to do: find alarm box or wires for indicators and connect the link and capacitor for alarm system

[kev1234]

So I wired in the alarm system as in your pic cully but it didn't work.. I couldn't get hold of a 850uF cap but I don't think the value would have made it work for me.
When I clicked the disarm button the alarm would disarm but then arm again.
I think it was due to the added capacitor not discharging quickly enough.

After much experimentation I found the solution was to add a resistor in parallel to the cap. I also tried with numerous values and found the best charge/discharge time was achieved using a 470uF electrolytic cap and a 390ohm resistor (see pic).

As a bonus, I found that my alarm system was already wired into the indicators so they would flash when the system was armed/disarmed nicely and so I didn't need to find the alarm box to wire into it as I was previously trying to do.

The final problem with the system was the wireless range.. It was so good I could open the car from 2 streets away and I was worried I'd press the button by mistake one day it would open... (leaving the crisp packets and empty bottles in the back open to theft).. I just tied the aerial up in knots which worked.

Thanks again to cully for your posts which spurred me onto do this, great work!

[cully]

glad you got it to work is the drawing polarity right for the capacitor?

mine started playing up on the disarm so i added a key switch to disable the alarm
i will go back and try your values when i have some spare time

[kev1234]

I think it is.. the connection from the wireless box is negative, so that goes to the negative side of the cap..

Yes, well without the resistor to quickly discharge the capacitor after disarming, the alarm arms again then for whatever reason the alarm was going off (could be some kind of tamper protection circuit triggering it). I found that the cap needed discharging quickly but not too quick, hence the experimenting with resistors and values...

Great shout on the cap though, I wouldn't have thought to use one straight away..

By the way, do you know anything about the sounder on these things? Mine's one of those type with 3 inputs and an internal battery.. It stopped working so I've rebuilt it, not fitted it yet though so don't know if it'll work...

[cully]

yeh! i got my alarm working again excellent

ive left my original capacitor and wired a 590ohm resistor across it works a treat for now
oh i did solder it inplace too

[attachment=17463]

as for the alarm box mine was so badly crudded up under the wheel arch it was not savable so I stole the alarm box off the wife's 206 with my old one i used it to make an extension cable and relocate the sounder on the bulk head in the engine bay out the way of the road grime

[attachment=17464]

[attachment=17465]

[attachment=17466]

[attachment=17467]

[kev1234]

Nice one! Glad it worked for you!

Good plan with the alarm - mine looked very similar.. the circuit looked ok but the batteries were shot.. I've fitted some new ones and repaired some components I broke doing it so will test it soon - unfortunately my girlfriend doesn't have a stealable siren!

Any idea how I might interface a standard 2-pin siren with these 3 pins?

[cully]

Any idea how I might interface a standard 2-pin siren with these 3 pins?

i did buy a 3 wire siren from evilbay but could not interface it, as the trigger wire was wrong, as it was looking for some sort of pulse to activate alarm,
i gave up with it and replaced it like for like

[kev1234]

i did buy a 3 wire siren from evilbay but could not interface it, as the trigger wire was wrong, as it was looking for some sort of pulse to activate alarm,
i gave up with it and replaced it like for like

Yeh it's strange.. testing the leads, one is GND, one is +12V and the other pulses between +12-8V. I think it's pulsing all the time and I've tried putting a piezo buzzer between the fixed 12V and pulsing 12V, which works but then obviously then it's alarming all the time... So I don't know how the siren box is wired.. It's a mystery at the moment!

Have just fitted my re-built siren box but it hasn't worked.. I wonder if the internal batteries need a charge first though so will leave it overnight and test again tomorrow..

[nominous]

In theory you could replace the IR receiver and IR transmitter with some of those cheap as chips 433MHZ TX/RX radio pairs.
As the signal is already being modulated & encoded for IR, you could swap to RF instead.
You can get them on ebay for sub £2 shipped.

Enclosing into the key might be a difficulty, but no extra expense of additional boxes.
I've done similar to upgrade IR remotes to be through wall

[ginge191]

Just bought this kit, loving the flip keys which come with this, will be seeing a friend to help this at the weekend; following this to the letter!

[ginge191]

So fitted this earlier (well my friend did, employed and installed by southern electric ) and it works as expected. Didn't wire in the break pedal as not really fussed about that.

Only question, when I go to get the keys cut, do I HAVE to clone the immobiliser also for both flip keys.

Also, sounds daft, but the key won't separate; took the small screw out in the back, what way is the flip key splitting?

[cully]

you will have to buy a chip that they clone to your original key

so 2 keys would need 1 chip each
or you could take the chip out your original key and fit into the flip key

if i remember the two screws takes off the half with the battery in only
under the round emblem in the centre is another screw that removes the top half with the spring and flip mech be carful it will fly apart if the key is not open when you take it apart

[ginge191]

you will have to buy a chip that they clone to your original key

so 2 keys would need 1 chip each
or you could take the chip out your original key and fit into the flip key

if i remember the two screws takes off the half with the battery in only
under the round emblem in the centre is another screw that removes the top half with the spring and flip mech be carful it will fly apart if the key is not open when you take it apart

Where did you get your chips from? And you say timpsons can also clone these?

I'll have a look at the ley again when i get a bit more time; i only see one screw (where the peugeot tab sits)

[cully]

timpsons supplyed the chips and programmed them (cloned off the original key)

ive not got my key here to look at

[ginge191]

timpsons supplyed the chips and programmed them (cloned  off the original key)  

ive not got my key here to look at

Ah wow! Top people! i shall request the same then!  Do they need the keys OFF the fob to cut them? or could i just hand them the whole lot?

If i can't solve it i'll send some pictures ; it just seems to be one piece - edit, sussed it, bit of MTFU worked

[cully]

key off the fob if i remember as they clamped the blank in their machine

[ginge191]

key off the fob if i remember as they clamped the blank in their machine

Sweet, will get that sorted monday  Cheers

[ginge191]

And I quote
"Sorry, we can't cut those keys or the chip. It's company policy to only use our own keys"

Absolute Bellend!

Now to find someone else!

[Paul_13]

Yep I've had that excuse before.

A classic response, he said the metal is different and it will damage our machine. Which I replied bollocks, laughed at him and walked off

[ginge191]

Yep I've had that excuse before.

A classic response, he said the metal is different and it will damage our machine. Which I replied bollocks, laughed at him and walked off

I've just sent a complaint to Timpsons. Furious at him! they've done my pre-supplied keys before

[Paul_13]

Unless you find someone down the market or a hard to find independent key cutter you're screwed