MG ZR: Cams & Maps

[lolsteve]

Up coming plans for this:
Get it back from the garage and do some bits quick like swap brakes over ready for 15th mini track day.

After that take to body shop for rust repair and get it looking presentable
Once back from the body shop I'm going to do the headgasket and belts on it however the added spice is I'm planning to add a Piper exhaust cam along with the timing advance dowels I've been saving. In stock form this should add about 8-10hp depending on who you talk to.
Race at castle combe action day and win

Yes the piper cam has been talked about before however due to either financial or time constraints I've not really had the chance to do it until now since I can happily walk to work so it's not needed as a daily any more along with brighter evenings and a somewhat decent income now seems a good opportunity to do it.
I do intend to make this the car bluey never was.

[Midnightclub]

Are you sticking it on the dyno before cams going in i take it?

[lolsteve]

Yea, I want to do a stock figure value of it with the stock manifold, ecu etc then do dyno runs after the changes I do to see the power improvements to hopefully dispel a lot of the guess work that goes on with k series tuning

[lolsteve]

Right bit of a gutting day then really. 

First off got the exhaust welded up, turns out it had split on the join before the cat at the top so needed the down pipe removing to weld so that was so extra time & $$
Next got it rolled and this is where I'm a bit peeved/confused.

Hadnt seen the equipment before until the car was on and about to roll when I was told "by the way I can't do print outs because the hard drive is broken but I'll get power figures from across the range and write them down to give you an idea"
Damn thats annoying but hey it'll do, more interested in the base peak figure and if the map makes any difference anyway. 

Results of it all was:
remap 123 at the wheels, +3 hp across the rev range
stock 120 at the wheels.

Somewhat disappointing to say the least as this small a difference could be down to other factors

Dug out blueys old rr results to compare. Bluey with a janspeed backbox pulled 115 at the wheels and this current mk2 one has a standard exhaust system and has been sat for 18 months with no history so more hopeful on this engine . 

Also watched the lambda readings for the stock map and at high/peak rpm it reaches about 0.85 or 12.5AFR. Which I think is about right for power/not melting heads

Another note was that the remap file went first and this was very steamy and then very smokey when at high rpm, smokey enough that I had to walk away from it for a bit. Unsure if this to do with the fact its not been revved hard in god knows how long or the cat had gotten a bit funky after all that time with the blow in it. Perhaps the car was running overly rich due to the lambda readings and it finally readjusted for the stock map run. Or i'm just being hopeful that the remap hadn't failed

Oh and after the stock run the car stank of rotten eggs, was quite vile was told it was due to the cat being very hot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HveHlG3...e=youtu.be

Notice the puffs of smoke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV9n745F...e=youtu.be

[procta]

how does this one pull compared to the blue one?

[jammapic]

As said today mate when you came to the unit, the puffs of black smoke are detonation occurring. If you listen under the bonnet as its doing it, you'll hear it pre detonating. Needs to be richer than 12.5:1 if you are runny any amount of advance is my experience.

JP

[lolsteve]

On the rolling road I was watching the lambda readings on his machine and as it got to top end it was running less than 0.85 Lambda (12.5:1)
Had the map put back on for 3sisters and got my friend in his zs to watch the rear as I held it at various rpms on the motorway to see if we could entice some smoke out of it and not a puff. Not exactly scientific but meh

Anyway the results, friend also took his zs on a track for the first time and now he has the bug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otQp9d6Jp94

[jammapic]

You'll not see the puffs of smoke when on the move, they are only small.

12.5 at full load, with timing advance, in my opinion, is too lean. Needs more fuel.

£5 says you'll hole a piston in the next 6 months

[lolsteve]

how does this one pull compared to the blue one?

Pulls well despite having being effectively stock whereas bluey had janspeed manifold and a fresh headgasket 
This apparently has 5hp more at the wheels with the stock map

You'll not see the puffs of smoke when on the move, they are only small.

12.5 at full load, with timing advance, in my opinion, is too lean. Needs more fuel.

£5 says you'll hole a piston in the next 6 months

Well it was 12:5 at not quite peak rpm so probably got richer. Do we think an additional 0.5ms of pulse width would sort it back out ( 5% increase at WOT). Sadlly can't exactly do live adjustments so would have to make educated guesses 

[lolsteve]

So Ive got a tick, not sure whats causing it. First I was panicking thinking it's predet but it sounds more mechanical/electrical to me almost like an injector tick. It's faint but anyone hear it/ got any ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNNUBlP-4h8

[Poodle]

That does sound kind of knocky....

Might just be the video, did you sort out the fuelling in the end?

[jammapic]

Its hard to hear in the video, but does sound a bit rattly top end.

Just hope you haven't started to break down a piston with all that detonation on the dyno!

[Piggy]

is that the diesel version steve!?

[lolsteve]

Think the louder/deeper noises are just part of the k series charm. heads coming off soon anyway so will get the tappets out for a freshen up

its more little ticking noise yiu hear at the end I'm after, wondering if it's injector ticking :/

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Also still not convinced on the detonation stuff. Two other cars and bluey run this "test" map and non of which have developed a ticking or any other noises etc

[jammapic]

Put a knock light on it, put it on the dyno and I'll bet you my left nut you'll see it flashing in time with the black puffs.

[Toms306]

Its not the purge valve ticking is it? Can't watch the vid atm but they seem to make a hell of a noise on the 1.4s.

[lolsteve]

Put a knock light on it, put it on the dyno and I'll bet you my left nut you'll see it flashing in time with the black puffs.

Could always do with a spare...
Thing is that Bluey ran the same map for about 3 months, never skipped a beat and that was driven up & down the county for Christmas etc

Its not the purge valve ticking is it?  Can't watch the vid atm but they seem to make a hell of a noise on the 1.4s.

Was thinking that but it seems to be only ticking at certain rpm/throttle positions. Purge seems to be more of an idle noise

[lolsteve]

Put stock map back on and it's still ticking. Topped up oil also as it was halfway and unplugged the purge canister. Driving a bit tomorrow so going to see if any of those things fix it

[Piggy]

Don't mean to be negative steve...but 120 at the wheels seems, well, bad?!
Allowing for high transmission losses its still only roughly 145bhp at the fly...
Are any of these "160" engines actually 160?!

[lolsteve]

They're 160PS so "157"Hp I think. Read the other day people saying they rolled 152-155 newish so a 10hp loss with the crappy £10 oil I put in to replace the syrup that came out and the stock exhaust system
Any other ideas for regaining a bit of lost bwarp?

[Poodle]

Yes, buy a decent car.

Give the head a good going over when you pull it, that should help. May as well upgrade while you're there too...

[lolsteve]

And the 306 is what?.. na I kid
Will be giving it a good refurbishment when it's off, want a uprated exhaust cam but the place nearest to me who will regrind for £170 won't get back to me

Still got the uprated manifold to fit and now considering loosing the twin tip in favour of a japcan

[Anton]

f*ck me that sounds awful

[Matt-Rallye]

Seriously steve why dont you just sack the rover off and buy a gti6?

[jammapic]

The MG is great fun, I get the appeal.

When we brought it back to life, and went cruising in it, I just got it.

Each to their own.

[Matt-Rallye]

I think the MG is a great little car, especially for the money they can be had for! and the K series is a cracking engine despite the HG issues.

But Steve just seems to have nothing but failures with this and the blue one! Can it please just have a T series shoe horned in and then mapped to hell and back with a nice big blower?

Each to their own indeed

[jammapic]

I think Steve is learning a lot with the car. Everyone has had it, that particular car of theirs they have kept through thick and thin and learnt how to spanner on.

Given I did this myself on a Rover 220 TomCat turbo, I cant comment

[Piggy]

Seems a bit of a shame when most gti6s in standard form make the 167bhp even if not really cared for or high mileage.
Seems a lot of work to have to put in to get to stock power on those 160s!

[lolsteve]

Aye she sounds pretty poorly, fresh head, oil etc will hopefully resolve that. Think the vvc mechs on this one are louder than blueys, that's just the luck of the game though in terms of how noisy they are

Just not a fan of the 306..odd I know considering I'm still bumming about here but I just don't have the desire to get back into one. I love some of the projects on here don't get me wrong and the community is awesome but I just don't look favourably upon my old one enough to make me want one again. Besides the k series is such an easy engine to work on even I can do work on them

Thanks James, the more I drive this one the more happy I am with it. Just can't wait to get all the parts fitted/sorted and having it running rings. Just need to get ahold of the exhaust cam so I can get on with this head job

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Maybe it's because it's not making the power is what's also keeping me so interested. If I had the 160 I'd yawn and move onto something else. This is a challenge :p

[jammapic]

Are we stripping down the old engine thats in my unit, or whipping the head off the current one over a weekend?

JP