Suspension Bushes - Upgrade items?

[Ruan]

Right, I know there's like a thousand threads on this, but just want some feedback, as I rarely hear it to be honest.

When my car ends up back on the road, I need to really sort out the front suspension situation - it'll hopefully go back with a fresh front subframe, seam welded etc, but want to get rid of a lot of the shitty chocolate suspension components there... Bear in mind that these bushes will likely be putting up with 300lb.ft torque plus and my driving - from experience anything motorfactor lasts roughly one hard drive and it's saggy and loose again, fine when it's all stock, but not at elevated power levels - I'm also bored of sitting on driveways fighting with suspension components.

So basically the MAIN items that will need replacing are:

Front wishbone bushes (round rubber)

Rear wishbone bushes (P bushes) - I've heard Partner ones are all lovely, but never seen anyone do more than about 100 miles on them? Are they just as lethal as motorfactor ones otherwise...

Front balljoints - these appear to get a real raping from my driving, I kill them in no time at all! Even when I had a stock GTi motor in, I used to wreck them. Maybe I drive like too much of an asshole... Probably. Are there actually any *uprated* front balljoints, other than like Meyle HD - which from seeing other peoples' experience of them, they fail just as blimmin' fast!

Also - I'm seriously sick of destroying lower engine mounts, because it's me and all my engines leak like the Exxon Valdez, the lower engine mount gets f*cked from oil etc in seconds and I blankly refuse to put in a solid/uprated lower mount in, it shakes the car to bits and pisses me off - anyone got any thoughts on the idea of making a strut brace with integrated upper engine brace to take half the load off the lower mount, ala Volvo Modular motor? Shouldn't increase cabin vibes much more, but really help stiffen up the motor?

[cully]

ive done Nurburg ring-pugfest-FCS-actionday coombe on my Partner bushes and they are still tight and good
seriously considering a set for my daily too just to stop the tramlining on the motorway

[Ruan]

Are they genuine Peugeot ones, Paul?

[cully]

no i dont think so, they were from ebay but they were stupidly cheap at the time, but now have been price hiked cause they were selling like the hot cake

[zx_volcane]

Can only give my thoughts, although assume you already know them


Meyle HD arms had been good - apart from the p-bush recently failing in a way I've never seen one go before, ie snapped

The bushes themselves seem fine though, as in bottom ball joint, and the rubbers on the front and the p-bush

I'm waiting for Meyle to see what they say about it, going to be sending the old one back for (anal)ysis

Could treat it similar to halfords advanced tools, prob ok for the most part and if they do fail you've got a 4 year guarantee on them?


I'm looking into the other options but they don't really give me a load of faith, except perhaps some genuine peugeot partner p-bushs, but I'd want to put them on a decent arm.

Engine mount wise, I think Ive got baker bm all round still and honestly it totally liveable, I don't notice the vibration.

[welshpug]

I have the alloy P bushes on my zx, iirc been on for about 4k miles. though about 3 years now, as I stuffed the shell they were bolted to.

front bushes are Motaquip IIRC (which I've been told are no longer part of PSA, but still decent stuff) balljoints are Motaquip that have done 15k.

rear beam is on o.e mounts about 3k old.


so far, still nice and toight pointy thing, stock arb's but AST up front on 315 lb springs and 23mm bars at the back on konis, twat a speedbump and you know about it, but otherwise you'd not know it was this firm till you loaded it up on the bends.

[ally406]

As far as suspension components go, I stopped buying parts out of motor factors a long time ago. OE only or something like Lemforder. They cost a lot more but I simply got fed up doing the same job every 20k (or in many cases a lot less!). The 406 has a stupendous number of suspension components, particularly on the rear, pattern parts were getting tiresome.

As far as P bushes go, almost as important as what brand, but is that they are aligned correctly. The bush should spend the majority of it's time in a neutral, unstressed position. If it is not aligned to the arm 100%, then it is under stress most of the time. This all goes out of the window when you start doing things like lowering, stock alignment will no longer be correct and will significantly reduce the lifespan on the bush.

[Eeyore]

meyle HD wish bones and ball joints.
Partner P bushes or the roller bearing ones if you can afford.
power flex front wishbone bushes
Powerflex lower engine mount may be standard for longer?
baker bm engine mounts
baker bm camber adjustable top mounts and machined down coilovers to match.
Should be good from then onwards!

[Niall]

Roller bearings are not a good idea unless its a track use car or you just don't give a f*ck about your spine. They make the car stupidly crashy

[Ruan]

Roller bearing wishbone bushes are a total farce! You're expected to get under your car in the cold shitty rain and snow to pump grease into your wishbone bush bearings... Err no thanks!

Had Baker BM mounts and sold them on, also experienced Powerflex red and purple - not going back there, I swear my head is still suffering from the infernal cabin rattle.

Looks like the Partner bushes are the way to go on the front wishbones... Any ideas about balljoints or my engine mount idea?

[welshpug]

how about stop the bastard leaking oil? :p

[bigcheez2k3]

It's an XUD, they leak oil from the factory, right?

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as I'm looking to build myself up a pair of decent wishbones soon.

[Piggy]

I use powerflex. And QH ball joints, TREs and drop links.

Done 15k nearly now...all perfect still.

And more than 300ft lbs to deal with

[Ruan]

Hmm, even without leaking oil I think the lower engine mount will get wrecked..

We shall see, I think I'm going to go with a set of Partner bushes, might use Partner P bushes and then a set of Powerflex rears, the Powerflex P bushes are a bit extortionate IMHO - but haven't decided on balljoints, can't think of any items that are a real upgrade there.

In terms of actual suspension, I've not massively decided, it's currently got a set of reasonably old Spax Kryptons on there which I'm not a mega fan of along with I think some Eibach 30s - so I expect I'll keep the 30mm springs and replace the shocks maybe with some B6s, but haven't fully decided... Maybe some ZX16v B4s - don't know.

[Niall]

I found B4s very good but B6s/B8s in a different league in terms of handling but comfort is only marginally different. Although they are quite substantially more expensive, i can't recommend B8s enough. In fact, your welcome to take the 6 for a drive at some point to see what they are like if you want.

[7057sam]

Roller bearings are not a good idea unless its a track use car or you just don't give a f*ck about your spine. They make the car stupidly crashy

Yeah I've got them on the astor and not very fun on any type of road that isnt complete flat and level but the turn on track it's kinda worth it.

You can also hear them  but it's just one of those things.

[Ruan]

Well, from memory, the B8s are just the same as B6s, but they have springs included?

I've got the springs I want I think, they're the perfect height, so I think I'll stick with them tbh!

[son of a beesting]

Hi I think the B6 and B8 have the same internals just the B8 has a shorter strut for lowered cars.

If you want to keep your lowering Eibach springs I think B8 are the ones to go for.

The B12 is the pack that includes dampers and springs

[Niall]

B8 and B6 are identical except the B8 had a slightly shorter body. Give a perfect drop with a set of eibachs

[nominous]

anyone got any thoughts on the idea of making a strut brace with integrated upper engine brace to take half the load off the lower mount, ala Volvo Modular motor?

Any ideas on suitable take off points ?
You'd want to be coming off the block and it's very "busy" at the back of it.
I'd had a wonder about a torque bar from the cambelt top mount to the shock tower.

[welshpug]

like a 406.

[powerandtorque]

My eBay Partner P-bushes failed fairly quickly - less than 10k motorway miles on them certainly.

On one the bonding between the rubber and the inner metal sleeve was failing and there was the beginning of cracks appearing, and on the other, there was significant cracks/splits in the rubber all the way through. Not as bad as standard P-bushes can get certainly, but certainly not good for only being on the car 4 months odd and with comparatively easy use plodding up and down the motorway.

I'd pressed them on in the correct place for a mildly lowered car so that the bush had minimum pre-load on it, so I'm not sure why they failed so soon when others on here seem to have had no issues - maybe I was unlucky and I got a duff batch, or maybe I've put more miles on than most.

To their credit the company (EAP) replaced them free of charge under warranty after I sent them pictures of the bushes without the faff of returning the old ones, and coincidentally the replacements landed on my desk today.

---

The pictures of the failed Partner P-bushes...

[welshpug]

might be worth measuring those and getting a poly bush in there, save a lot over powerflex

I've noticed a marked drop in quality of motorfactor parts over the last few years

[powerandtorque]

I did think about the possibility of fitting a polybush of sorts and will remove the failed Partner bushes without cutting the alloy casing - a quick browse with some rough measurements found one that looks like it would fit but need to check the exact measurements with my verniers later.

Motorfactor pattern stuff is sadly often complete garbage and had these not been replaced under warranty I'd have probably just gone and bought some OE Partner bushes as they're not that much money in the grand scheme of things. Indeed, that's what I had intended on buying originally, but people were singing the praises of these eBay ones on here so I thought I'd give them a try...

[Ruan]

That there is precisely what I'm worried about!

I really can't be arsed with changing them after 10k miles!

[powerandtorque]

Neither can I, but I'll give these replacement ones a try since I've got them to hand - with the mileage I'm doing, at least it'll be summer and thus warm when/if they next fail

Prior to these, it had new Motaquip wishbones and the standard P-bushes on those lasted about 35k miles to give you some idea. The front bushes still look very good with no obvious perishing or signs of degradation.

[Paul_13]

Has any one first hand experience using power flex black p bushes?

[Connor]

Yeah for about a week, then took the car off the road lol I fitted some to Mrs midnights about a year or so ago, if she sees this I'm sure she could tell you

[Paul_13]

Be handy to know if they're any good

[Connor]

They are good, they've definitely lasted and iirc have a lifetime warranty anyway