Project Daily Sigma (16V TU)

[Niall]

Darren if you can find out the PN of the lambda these should have, I have a virtually new genuine one here I can post you to try out?

[darrenjlobb]

I must admit, if i thought the lambda could be causing this, id order another, as its a bit of a situation with them, basically i have the orignal one that was in the 4-2-1 (bent end so deffo no good) then i have one that was in the VTS stock downpipe...and i also have a brand new bosch one out the 8v...im currently using the 8v one...only because i bought the thing brand new back along to try and make it MOT....i had to file the plug to make it fit, but wires look the same so hope they all read the same? Either way i find it hard to believe this issue could be caused by a bad lambda...im going to pull the timing covers later just to confirm nothing has slipped etc...

[Matt-Rallye]

You using a green or blue plug? Its gotta be a green on green or it doesnt work dude.

[Niall]

Ah that could be your problem mate. A few peugeots (gti6 engine is one) use a lambda which has a different voltage range. You Have to get one with the correct part number

[Dum-Dum]

Have you tried what welsh pug suggested about checking which runner is cold and also checking injector wiring. It could be that it wasnt bad till you fitted the ford coil but you further disturbed the injector wiring in fitting the new coil?

[darrenjlobb]

Ok I have an update to this situatuion...albeit rather confusing heh.


So last night we were playing with it, I had decided at work that I was going to try another coil pack...just INCASE the new coilpack was a dud...would be just my luck, as it happens my sisters old fiesta is still kicking about with the same coil.

So swapped it over, had to swap leads as well as they were different connection on the coil end...This meant that i had to "trim down" the ends of the leads to make them fit the 16v head..just the same as i had to trim down the ones from ATSpeed (under there instruction) to make them fit.... not the length at all, it literally just a bulge on the end, which has to be removed to make clearance.

Anyway, fitted it all, tried running it, and exactly the same, running like a pile of crap / misfiring etcetc...so was like, can t be that then...

Proceeded to puto them back on the fiesta, and now the fiesta wont start...other than the odd pop and fart on a few cylinders, but clearly totally screwed (running perfectly previously).. so then was like. wtf...has my ecu killed the coil or...

So was thinking about it, and decided the ONLY thing we had changed, was trimmed the leads....albeit still tonnes of silicon down over the plug, so couldnt possibly imagine how it could be causing an issue...

Found a set of OLD leads off a rover v8 i had lying around in the shop...so like these leads are twice to long and so old / perished its not even funny...but fitted them anyway, turned key and fiesta fired right up...so then fitted them to my car, fired up, and sure enough, missfire totally gone!! So turns out the issue all along, was the one thing i thought couldnt possible be an issue, the brand new leads..

Im still fairly confused,as cant possible see how triumming that bit of lead off the end could have caused it to i assume start arcing...either way im going to find some new leads with smaller ends on them and hopefully that will sort it... Drove it for half an hour, was largely fine, although did start to missfire a bit towards the end, but that could well be the useless leads i was using..

So there is hope...

[welshpug]

So time for a bog standard j4 coil then

[Niall]

Good news mate. What are the spark plug holes like on that engine? Got a pic? I use corsa 16v leads on mine and they are an almost perfect for except for the rubber boots running down the holes aren't short enough but that's not an issue.

[Rippthrough]

If they're not sealing against the ceramic on the plug from cutting them, they can often arc down any dirt/oil/grease down the side of the ceramic to the head.

[darrenjlobb]

So time for a bog standard j4 coil then

Well no..given thats the coil that failed in the first place..just like they all do...

[darrenjlobb]

If they're not sealing against the ceramic on the plug from cutting them, they can often arc down any dirt/oil/grease down the side of the ceramic to the head.

This is a good shout, i wont if the way ive trimmed them is effecting the seal against the ceramic, could be be....im going to get some new ones from auto factors tomorrow and see what we can do...

[callumcull]

Good luck with this mate, I'm quite intrigued to see what the issue is!

[welshpug]

So time for a bog standard j4 coil then

Well no..given thats the coil that failed in the first place..just like they all do...

well given they're all nearly 15 years old, a NEW one isn't a bad shout really is it? they really aren't that unreliable.

[darrenjlobb]

So time for a bog standard j4 coil then

Well no..given thats the coil that failed in the first place..just like they all do...

well given they're all nearly 15 years old, a NEW one isn't a bad shout really is it? they really aren't that unreliable.

No but all the "new" ones are shitty aftermarket cheap things ...like 80 quid...genuine is likely more...if a Ford coil pack is prooven then i thought it would be fine...obviously its not turned out that way...frankly bord of reading your comments on the forum at times.

[welshpug]

pardon?!

[darrenjlobb]

Lol im just saying, some of your comments can be a bit blunt at times, just because your an oem nut dosnt mean we all have to be....theres a time and a place for non stnadard parts, normally when there better, or cheaper without being worse...

[darrenjlobb]

As a bit of an update,

We have now 100% cured the missfire, I bought some NGK lead ends (straight long style) from local auto parts place, and fitted them to the ford leads, and works like a treat, cant imagine how , but the other leads were obviously managing to arc somehow...possibly cheapy / crappy rubber boots on the ends im thinking...or maybe moisture on the outside of the plugs? Either way it seems ok now...

Only issue is the idle now, altho we are thinking / hoping its lambda related, as if semi reset it, it will idle for about minutes, and then slowly but surely make it richer and richer, until the icv cant let anymore air in, and then it just conks out...if you dissconnect the lambda it seems to idle ok or at least, for alot longer before eventually dying...so think im just going to have to get a new proper one (NGK or bosch could anyone advise? or other?) and see if that sorts it..

Either way, it now starts and drives much better without the missfire, so at least I have my daily driver back on the road / working which is the main thing!

Thanks for all the help / advise from people...(bledy petrols!!)

[Niall]

Have you tested the Lambda to see what its doing once the engine is warm? Sounds like its sticking sensing a lean mix so throwing in loads of fuel. My old one did this as i saw on a run 11mpg. Tested it and it was stuck lol. New lambda and it was like driving a new car.

[306Dan]

I use NGK ones all the time I've had a few dodgy Bosch ones before I.e nearly lasting a year

[Piggy]

Awesome news!!

You didnt say you had trimmed the leads....that would have helped @ the beginning

[welshpug]

I would advise a Bosch one, extra tenner and you'll get one with a direct fit plug usually, the wires used on Lambdas don't take very well to being crimped or soldered and do need the cleanest signal possible.

I'm far from an o.e.m freak, you haven't seen any posts on my ZX or my 205 I guess I know often that works, Blue oval stuff tends not to (there's a reason they are plentiful and cheap...)

an early 8v XU or TU coilpack, which use a totally bog standard 4 pin JPT plug as opposed to the oval f*rd one if you do feel the need to add plug leads, for the XU then GM 1.6/1.8 fit, afaik they fir the TU head too.

[Niall]

I would advise a Bosch one, extra tenner and you'll get one with a direct fit plug usually, the wires used on Lambdas don't take very well to being crimped or soldered and do need the cleanest signal possible.

I'm far from an o.e.m freak, you haven't seen any posts on my ZX or my 205 I guess I know often that works, Blue oval stuff tends not to (there's a reason they are plentiful and cheap...)

an early 8v XU or TU coilpack, which use a totally bog standard 4 pin JPT plug as opposed to the oval f*rd one if you do feel the need to add plug leads, for the XU then GM 1.6/1.8 fit, afaik they fir the TU head too.

Thats basically what I'm using. 1.6 TU coil pack with Corsa 1.6 leads and i haven't had any issues at all

[Dum-Dum]

Bosch lambda gets my vote too, you get what you pay for and bosch stuff is top quality.

[Niall]

Bosch is what Peugeot used anyway so if its good enough for them.... NTK are also good but theres barely any difference in cost so just go for the Bosch. DO NOT buy one of these cheap universal ones. They rarely last 5 minutes and if the management on that is similar to the gti6 (its a MM 1ap isn't it on them?), the voltage range is different anyway.

[darrenjlobb]

Ok ideal,

Was hoping that would be the case, as i tend to always use bosch sensors if i can for other things Certainly wouldnt buy one of the 20-30 quid jobs anyway heh

There seems to be "many" different bosch lambda listed for the saxo 1.6 vts...I believe the later ones had two lambdas, is the pre cat lambda on the ones with two the same as the one used on the single lambda ones? Struggling to find what part number I need... And if voltage ranges are different etc i guess its fairly important i get the right bugger!

[Niall]

What age car did the engine and ecu come from mate? I'll get you a part number tonight when I'm home.

[silverzx]

Watched the vid's on YT. Looks fun, liked the time warp welding too.

[darrenjlobb]

What age car did the engine and ecu come from mate? I'll get you a part number tonight when I'm home.

Sadly I have no idea Niall...engine and box was already out car / on its own when i bought it..

Its a single plug ECU, did all the single plug ones have just the one lambda and 3 plug ones have both? or was that not related at all?

[Niall]

I will look into it later mate. Pretty sure it should just be a single plug

[Matt-Rallye]

Single plug had single lambda, 3 plug had double lambda