Project Daily Sigma (16V TU)

[welshpug]

Are you running the dual 16v lamdas or just one? Sometimes causes missfire issues in modified tu lumps.

Its not three plug.

[darrenjlobb]

It only did it when hot with the old coil.....but all the time with the new one....

Its deffo wasted spark there's only 3 wires....

How could it be the map/ lambda is changing the coil has such an effect on it ?

[Ruan]

Nice wellies, Darren!

[Danny Wideboy]

^^^^LOL^^^^

[Niall]

What was the coil pack from? When looking for a coil pack for mine, i used one from a 1.6 8v TU as apparently it gives a stronger spark?

[welshpug]

they don't, that's tosh.

[darrenjlobb]

Its a ford coilpack, its the "conversion kit" ATspeed sell...

So as an update to my petrol woes.....

This evening has mainly been full of fail..

Started out checking obvious things, power to main relay / ecu (all seems present and correct) ground checks everywhere (as far as i can tell, all perfect), tested wiring from coilpack to ecu, and some other sensors, all seems perfect...Changed the crank sensor, map sensor and temp sensor, all had no change.

Had another small issue in that it idled high, well found the cause to that, had a vacume leak, so i fixed that, only to be presented with the issue of that now it wont idle at all! just bogs out and conks out! Have unplugged ECU for half hour thinking maybe it needed to relearn or something, but to no avail.

So overall this is the ongoing issue...on stock coilpack it starts from cold, and appears to be ok, only very slight missfire..then as it warms up the missfire gets much worse..
With the new coilpack, it missfires fairly constantly, or at least, constantly when you rev the engine / load it...can sometimes hold it at say 2k, and it will sit there smoooth as a kitten firing on all 4, but blip the throttle and it will "Miismissmissmiss" on the throttle up...

Makes no sence to me, only thing im thinking is screwed ECU? Can buy another, but its 150 quid that ill cry if it dosnt fix it! Im deffo remembering why i tune diesels now!!

EDIT:

Pictures of said coil fitted....:

[Niall]

I love how much room there is down the front of that block for a BFO Turbo......

I would be looking at the ICV if it won't idle. These are just as problematic as the 306 petrols.

[ozonehostile]

Have you checked the compression since putting the engine in?

Duff injector perhaps?

[darrenjlobb]

The thing is, when it "works" IE on the old coil, and before it gets red hot, it drives fine...all the power it should have, smooth, lovely...just develops this chronic missfire, and more so with new coil. even just revving it on the spot, its there one minute and gone the next, Its gotta be electrical in my mind to be so intimitant...I think im just going to have to get another ecu and see what kicks off...

[mattyh24hdi]

I may be all out talking shit but didn't you say it's camd? If so im sure that you have to advance timing? As tgis Would make it missfire. Would this create issue. Im sure someone will tell me to shut up but just an idea lol.

[Atterz]

Its a standard engine, no cams Matty.

[londondan86]

Good little project pal, nice to see something coming out of lobbland again. I know it's a daily but a T2 at 7psi can't hurt!! Lmao

As for the issue, can you get it on PP2000 to get the lambda readings? Sounds like the O2 sensor has gone to me, my cabby had exactly the same symptoms until a new one was fitted.

[Midnightclub]

Its a standard engine, no cams Matty.

"Really just a good overhaul with new seals / gaskets / oil / filters / cambelt / waterpump / tensioners / some nice newmans camshafts"

[Toms306]

As for the issue, can you get it on PP2000 to get the lambda readings? Sounds like the O2 sensor has gone to me, my cabby had exactly the same symptoms until a new one was fitted.

I had a similar issue to this on one of the 1.4s as well, took ages to work out as the Lambda isn't used till warm, which I didn't know at the time. Just unplugging it and letting it run the default worked in my case, until I got a new one anyway.

[Eeyore]

Just unplug sensors randomly until you find one that makes a difference...

[darrenjlobb]

James it has a set of newmans cams in it...its not mapped yet, but tonnes of saxo / 106 owners seem to never get round to mapping it will no ill effects... The fact that when it wants to run right its perfect makes me think it cant be anything seriously wrong / out of adjustment, but i could be wrong...

Ive ordered an ECU to rule it out, else im going to be spending hours messing around with wiring / sensors for nothing if its that that is at fault..Ive already swapped just about every sensor in it now..

[welshpug]

unplugged the lambda?

[Rippthrough]

I had that once when the wideband lost it's settings after being off the road for a while, exact same symptoms.

I'd be concerned that the Ford coilpack has made it worse though, unless it's just coincidence - does the ford coilpack run the same dwell as the CoP Pug setup?

[jammapic]

I would be saying lambda issue too. The 1AP ecu won't read lambda at all until it's warmed up. At that point, it'll read lamba and trim to lambda:1. You can run it with it unplugged, it'll just default the values... same as if you unplug the MAP sensor, it emulates a MAP input based on TPS.

Also, both these motors and the GTi6 motors like to be a bit rich of lambda:1 if they are cammed, you'd normally find a lumpy idle until you get down to about lambda:0.9 - BUT, the ICV should pick up the slack if it's working right.

Have you got / got access to a wideband to check the mixture isn't WAYYY out?

JP

[darrenjlobb]

I have tried unplugging the lambda, which makes literally no difference..

Tbh I know im not a petrol head..but to me, this really isnt a sensor that effects mixture issue...(again shoot me down when im wrong) but its more fundimental than that..its literally completetly missing on a bank of cylinders when it does it, it still seems to get worse as it gets hot, once its warmed right up, its practicallly running on 2 cylinders...and when it does fire on the other two, theres pops and bangs, almost as if timing is wrong, but 99.9999% sure its not...

My ideas atm is fried ECU coil driver for one bank, or new coil pack is bad...

Will try dissconnecting one bank at a time tomorrow and see if it runs the same as when its missing badly...

[jammapic]

That would make sense, if it runs wasted spark...

[darrenjlobb]

Yeah deffo waste spark, coil is in two banks, same with injectors, two banks...

[Niall]

It is starting to sound like a bad coil driver. Also have you buzzed out the cable supplying that particular bank from the ECU?

[welshpug]

seeing as you have a 4 branch, which one is still cold? check condition of the plugs, that'll tell you if one or more cylinder is either not burning or running rich.

injector wiring breaking down is common on the TU engine.

[darrenjlobb]

Yeah, wel belled both the coil outputs from the ecu pin to the coilpack..both check out with perfect continuity...and wiggled the cables etc...have ordered ecu...so that will most likely mean its not the ecu at fault, but will see what happens...should be here tomorrow.

[Rippthrough]

I've got a couple of good TU coilpacks here if you want one to rule it out.

[devils_fuel]

looking good mate...but but but perv!!!!

enjoy Darren

[darrenjlobb]

New ecu fitted, no change....fml....

So ive changed every sensor, the ecu, and checked all the wiring...going to have to compression test / assume its more serious...cant understand how it could be given when it wants to it runs perfectly / smooth as silk...

[Matt-Rallye]

And this is why petrol tuning is a ballache

Really hope you fid the cause of this as i have always wanted too see a 1.6 16v 306 If disconnecting the lambda made no difference thats not a good sign! without the lambda in a vts / gti they run like shit and missfire heavily under load.

---

Although i also recall my old cammed gti (piper 270's) did this after i sold it too a friend, turned out it had slipped a tooth or two on exhaust cam and bent a few valves but for some weird reason it idled perfectly so a compression test is definately a good idea.