Oh great and wise HDI Gurus...

[Mattinthehat]

...please help!

My HDI is very difficult to start so changed glowplugs and still is hard to start, also has cut out about 6 times always when going up hill and always in 4th pushing 40mph+ the whole engine just cuts out and i have to wait a few mins then bump it

I found that if i prime it 5/6 times it will eventually start up, sometimes it will start up straight away...

Once its going it idles fine and runs ok, just drove for about 20mins with no issues, occasionally feels a tad sluggish at top of 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th are ok car drives generally ok if i take it really steady

Fuel pump works ok as i can hear it when i switch on ignition

So had a poke around some of the threads and im thinking i should clean the FPR or maybe its the fuel pump? also possibly the brown relay behind the ECU..??

Any suggestions? I need to get to work tomorrow and its a 60mile round trip up and down hills too maybe i should just use public transport *shudder*

Any help and advice greatly appreciated!

Cheers

[kentiiboii]

Your fuel pump relay is the brown box behind the ecu. If you can hear it priming the relay is fine.
Id guess maybe you have a air leak in your fuel system.

[londondan86]

Any fault codes, eml? Sounds like lp pump to me.

[Mattinthehat]

Your fuel pump relay is the brown box behind the ecu. If you can hear it priming the relay is fine.
Id guess maybe you have a air leak in your fuel system.

Thanks for that, there doesn't appear to be any diesel anywhere that i have noticed, i suspected it maybe a air getting in the system, when it happened the other day my fuel gauge was really low so assumed it was just crap from the tank that made it cut out, filled the tank and it ran fine all Saturday until i parked it facing uphill then it wouldn't start, left it overnight and it fired up first time, then it cut out 3 more times and is proving difficult to start - its an odd one this!

---

Any fault codes, eml? Sounds like lp pump to me.

Cant plug it in atm so no idea what the fault code is although engine management light has been on since i bought it, its always been a pig to start but assumed it was the glowplugs, i cleaned the battery terminals and all the connectors to the plugs and it started bang on for about a week then started to get harder until today...

Incidently is the lp pump something i can clean or should i just replace the whole thing?

[londondan86]

Take it out first (under the back seat) and clean the strainer see how you get on.
Ideally though you need to read the codes before you start spending money unnecessarily.

[Mattinthehat]

ok so as per lodondan86's suggestion i just took the lp pump out, gave it a good talking to, couldn't see anything wrong with it nor did it need a clean, put it all back together and it starts up, takes about 3 turns but it starts up no problem, just tried starting it 5/6 times and it worked every time .... going to roll with that for now no doubt ill be back on here tomorrow having broken down somewhere on a hill lol - love ma pug!

Thanks for the help and suggestions so far.....

[londondan86]

Sounds even more like the problems are from there. Get the codes read and post up some results and we can diagnose a bit better without guessing

[Poodle]

Do you tend to run low on fuel? They don't like sucking up air, so if you're booting it up hill or round a hard right corner with a low tank, all the fuel will sod off away from the pick up and she'll cut out. If it's not that, there's no other way for air to get in - pressurised system remember.

Check out that brown relay as suggested, you can check visually but the best bet is temporarily changing it for a known-good one and seeing what happens.

Definitely sounds like a fuel pressure problem though, see if you can get it on pp2000 for some live data - injector correction values and fpr duty cycle in particular.

[Mattinthehat]

Ok so today managed a 60+ mile round trip up hill and down dale, took it real steady and it only cut out once when i was on a flat and i tested it to see if it was hard acceleration that caused the issue and it was, i kept revs around 2k and managed 40mph which is ok i can still use the car :-)

Poodle - unfortunately yes i have let the fuel run a bit too low over the last couple of weeks :-( could this have caused an air lock or something? maybe i should bleed the system (hopefully its an easy job)..??

Stopped at the Peugeot dealership on my way home tonight and begged them to let me use Peugeot planet - they said sure no problem - but we have to charge you £45! Robbing b*stards, they did also suggest the same as everyone else - low pressure pump not keeping up with demand of high pressure system when hard acceleration is required and i should check my fuel filter for metal filings, if it aint that then its either the brown relay or the FPR or I have an air leak.

I suspect it isnt an air leak as surely this would make the engine cut out randomly or more frequently on lower revs?? My problem is localised to engine load and hard acceleration.

Will check my filter and replace as necessary, had a look at the brown relay and it looks like a ball ache to get at - thanks Peugeot for making these things really accessible

[Dum-Dum]

Just because you can hear the lift pump start to prime doesnt mean its running properly. I'd probably clean the FPR then do the LP pump then test with some known good sensors before changing the HP pump

[Mattinthehat]

Just because you can hear the lift pump start to prime doesnt mean its running properly. I'd probably clean the FPR then do the LP pump then test with some known good sensors before changing the HP pump

Nice one will do - is the FPR easy enough to clean? is there a guide?

Edit - found the guide, my FPR is going to be a motherf*ker to get off - bolts are well rusted so soaking them in WD :-)

[Poodle]

I say again - an air leak on this system is impossible. As I said above, the only way to get air into the system while running is if you run it low enough on fuel that the lift pump sucks it in. Even if what you're saying wasn't impossible, the system is self-bleeding anyway, so you can forget about airlocks and similar bs. Incidentally, anyone suggesting an air leak doesn't know what they're talking about so treat other advice from them with caution.

Before you spend any money on parts put £30 in the car then go and try to force it to cut out - best way is foot-to-the-floor acceleration from about 1500rpm in 4th all the way through the range. If you can't make it cut out you've found the issue, but if it still does it then we can start making some progress on the diagnosis. Always worth checking the obvious things first.

Also, for future reference, running the car low on fuel isn't a problem in itself, but it can cause the in-tank filter to clog with the crap that has accumulated in the tank over the years. Running it out of fuel to the point where it cuts out is bad for the pump though.

[Mattinthehat]

I say again - an air leak on this system is impossible. As I said above, the only way to get air into the system while running is if you run it low enough on fuel that the lift pump sucks it in. Even if what you're saying wasn't impossible, the system is self-bleeding anyway, so you can forget about airlocks and similar bs. Incidentally, anyone suggesting an air leak doesn't know what they're talking about so treat other advice from them with caution.

Before you spend any money on parts put £30 in the car then go and try to force it to cut out - best way is foot-to-the-floor acceleration from about 1500rpm in 4th all the way through the range. If you can't make it cut out you've found the issue, but if it still does it then we can start making some progress on the diagnosis. Always worth checking the obvious things first.

Also, for future reference, running the car low on fuel isn't a problem in itself, but it can cause the in-tank filter to clog with the crap that has accumulated in the tank over the years. Running it out of fuel to the point where it cuts out is bad for the pump though.

That was the Peugeot dealership head mechanic that said that about the air leak lol!

Well i have half a tank of juice and it still cut out when i floored it I can keep trying it if that will help force it out..??? i was low on fuel and going up hill when it first happened, but it has happened before a couple of times and i thought i had just stalled it by bringing my clutch up to fast now its a pig to start so i think there is something defo more than air in the system...

[londondan86]

^As poodle has said above the system is self bleeding so every time you start the car the lp pump primes the system.
You NEED to get the codes read now before guessing any further

[Mattinthehat]

^As poodle has said above the system is self bleeding so every time you start the car the lp pump primes the system.
You NEED to get the codes read now before guessing any further

Well thats going to be tricky, i have PP but my laptop is in for repair and dont know how long its going to take plus need the diag connectors

For now will just clean the FPR (im hoping this will solve the issue) and see if i need a new lp pump, fingers crossed!

[Poodle]

Ok fair, not low on fuel then.

Go careful removing the fpr, the torx heads on the bolts are made of cheese and will round out easily if you don't keep the driving bit nice and perpendicular. Removing the filter housing and bracket will help if you need more access, it's only 3 8mm allen head bolts, well worth it imo.

Where are you based? There may be members with an HDi locally that are willing to swap parts out to try and trace the issue.

[Mattinthehat]

Ok fair, not low on fuel then.

Go careful removing the fpr, the torx heads on the bolts are made of cheese and will round out easily if you don't keep the driving bit nice and perpendicular. Removing the filter housing and bracket will help if you need more access, it's only 3 8mm allen head bolts, well worth it imo.

Where are you based? There may be members with an HDi locally that are willing to swap parts out to try and trace the issue.

Cheers Poodle - had a go with my hand set of Torx keys but they are on good and tight so bought the necessary ratchet torx sockets, i reckon i can get at them now if i remove the rail and other wires and gubbins, dont want to touch the filter housing if i can help it.

Car packed up on my way home tonight, in 3rd overtaking and boom she died, gave it 5 mins and bumped it and she fired up right away although would not pick up on ignition start - would this point more to a pressure regulation problem rather than a pump problem???

Im based in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire (if any one in the area has PP - please help! I have beer :-) )- happy tinkering with the car myself, i have learnt a lot just from doing the necessary repairs and have enjoyed tinkering around with it but now i just want it running well its becoming frustrating! have drop links, rear shockers and new set of tyres to do this weekend too - its never ending

Edit:

Ok so unclipped some unclipables moved all the wires out the way and even moved the fuel filter housing so i could get at the FPR - been dousing the torx bolts in WD on and off all day, tried to get my socket in and there isnt enough room as the bracket for the fuel filter housing is in the way, i tried using the extensions but the bracket for the fuel filter housing is in the way (!) there are 2 hex bolts attaching it to the main body of the engine but not sure if this performs some other vital function i dont wanna knack my engine any further so reassembled it all and gave up for the day after much cursing and vowing never to by a french car again (only joking) i decided to remove the lp pump again and refit it in vain hope that disturbing some of the guilty parts would help me out, it sort of did engine doesnt take as much priming to start up but still takes ages.....

Here is the only photo i managed to take before battery died...




Any help greatly appreciated.

ps anyone wanna by a HDI?


F@ck me that will teach me to not read through posts properly - just noticed Poodles post says 'and bracket will help if you need more access, it's only 3 8mm allen head bolts, well worth it imo.'

FFS!

[Poodle]

Lol never mind mate, at least you'll get it done quicker next time now you know how it all goes together.

[Mattinthehat]

Lol never mind mate, at least you'll get it done quicker next time now you know how it all goes together.

lol guess what!? i managed to clean the FPR, put it all back together and fire it up inside an hour :-)

So now it still doesnt start first time, takes between 6-8 turns before the engine starts but it DOES start without priming and sounds a bit better too, ill test the hard acceleration tomorrow morning the only bad thing is that i noticed the green rubber 'O' ring was slightly perished...

So the starting issue is just one of the quirks of the HDI im guessing or could there still be an issue?

[Poodle]

Good to hear, progress!

No such thing as a "quirk", just problems that people cba to fix. Perished o-ring won't be helping, could be a sign of other issues. Has it been run on anything other than white diesel at any point? How many miles is she on?

[Mattinthehat]

Good to hear, progress!

No such thing as a "quirk", just problems that people cba to fix. Perished o-ring won't be helping, could be a sign of other issues. Has it been run on anything other than white diesel at any point? How many miles is she on?

No idea what fuel its been on previous all i know is the guy i bought it off is a long time backyard mechanic and he's ok but a bit of a bodger and an old boy, he said it was his sisters and regularly ran to Scotland and back, well, let me tell you, if his sister ran around in that im a monkeys uncle, it has an aftermarket 'loud' exhaust, black alloys and it hasnt been looked after in the slightest and handles like it been ragged about (she had 2 sons) and the car was registered to some guy, so far its had;

New front disks, pads all round, new handbrake cable, nearside front ball joint, oil filter, performance air filter and fuel filter change, oil change, new plugs

Still to do is; drop links and, shock absorbers (my offside rear has collapsed just after MOT!) 4 new tyres, balance & tracking, gear box oil change and maybe coolant change but its not doing so bad atm

The oil that came out was like tar!

Once all thats done im turning my attention to the usual list of interior faults!

Incidently it looks like someone has been at the lp pump before, the rubber circle is covered in gaffa tape and the framework it sits on has been bent at the edges like someone with big hands was trying to get at the pump....

miles is just over 152k, whoever had it before me hasnt looked after it hence why it was only 200 quid!

[Mattinthehat]

So just to confuse things even more - was called out at midnight last night so thought i would give it a test too, started as above, pushed it through some hard acceleration and it ran beautifully...

...until after about 25miles just about to reach my destination, went round a corner, accelerated in 3rd and boom, engine cut again and wouldnt start, had to prime it a bit but eventually started again, took it easy on the way back and it was ok.

So what now!?

[Poodle]

Was it a right hand corner and did you have less than 1/4 of a tank?

Lose the "performance" air filter, can almost guarantee it's not as good as the stock item and will be killing your maf if it's oiled.

Does sound like a bit of a shed tbh, might be worth looking at the other common problems - p bushes etc. Then again, for £200...

[HDi--Power]

This is a pretty clear cut worn hp pump problem, change it and I bet all your problems will be gone. 5 mins on pp2000 will tell you for sure

[Mattinthehat]

This is a pretty clear cut worn hp pump problem, change it and I bet all your problems will be gone. 5 mins on pp2000 will tell you for sure

Ah crap really? is it fixable or is it best buying another one?

[HDi--Power]

best either getting it reconned or buy a second hand one, it wont start quickly because its taking time to build the rail pressure and it cuts out because the requested pressure is too high above the actual under heavy loads

30 seconds on proper diagnostics watching the rail pressure while cranking will confirm it 100%

[Mattinthehat]

OK! so some progress was made tonight....

Tried my HDI on PP2000 and for whatever reason it couldnt be read we tried and tried but no dice then spotted my mate had a universal fault code reader so plugged it in and guess what, it threw up the following codes:

P0380 - glow plug fault - well changed them the other day so one might be out - no biggie
P0220 - Throttle switch - no biggie
P0230 - this is the culprit thats the fuel pump relay the big brown one at the back of the ECU - happy days, at least its not the HP pump

So decided to throw some propellant (in this case carb cleaner) down the air intake after the MAF sensor and guess what she kicked in straight away! happy happy



ps anyone know where i can get a cheap new one from?

[mcglynn]

P0230 is primrary fuel pump circuit.

Can be your LP pump, HP pump, relay, wiring etc etc.

You need the live data not just the codes and then you can determine the problem.

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Glow plug relay will be the suspect, its a common fault but these cars don't need glowplugs to start anyhow if all else is in order.

[Mattinthehat]

P0230 is primrary fuel pump circuit.

Can be your LP pump, HP pump, relay, wiring etc etc.

You need the live data not just the codes and then you can determine the problem.

you build me up then tear me down!

Well f@ck it ill start by swapping the relay, then the lp pump and so on...

Wil try to get PP2000 working

[mcglynn]

Why start with parts when you can get someone to get pp2000, get it working on it and get the data thats been said previously.

It could either be the lift pump or the high pressure pump, if it primes it wont be the relay.