EP3 Civic Type R - why not?

[lewisdmz]

Been having dirty thoughts recently of selling up and getting one of these, anyone owned one? Is the steering feel as bad as everyone makes out?

Attracted by the engine/gearbox/looks/reliability but being put off by tales of overly harsh handling on b roads and lack of steering feel (both of which the '6 dominates).

[Piggy]

If I had the choice between the two...

I would have the '6.

[puglove]

yeah im with piggy out of the 2 id defo have the 6, not a fan of the way the ep3s drive atall

[Piggy]

you have to have a LOT of faith in the front end, its more about bravery and trust than skill

[Tom]

Id have one over a '6 anyday. They sound great, they're better on fuel, more modern and personally if your not retarded you could drive one just as fast as you could a '6.

[Jonny81191]

Id have one over a '6 anyday. They sound great, they're better on fuel, more modern and personally if your not retarded you could drive one just as fast as you could a '6.

Erm, whut?

[Piggy]

Id have one over a '6 anyday. They sound great, they're better on fuel....

defo on the sound...truly amamaammmzing...but not sure on the fuel...

Only heard 30mpg figure on a run and 15ish when b road blasting...plus not much torque...

[Tom]

I know of 3 seperate type r's and they're all great on fuel... And they get the shit beaten out of them aswell.

[lewisdmz]

you have to have a LOT of faith in the front end, its more about bravery and trust than skill

Is this because the steering is so light/lack of feel? I've been reading threads on pistonheads and everyone seems to say that but then again most of them are snobs who would say anything less than an Elise has dull steering.

[Curt]

You're going to run in to the typical forum blinkers on here with this type of question I'm afraid. I'd advise to have a general Google/look on Pistonheads for some less bias views, or better yet, drive one.

I'd have one over a '6. Actually, I'd have a DC2... but still.

[Tom]

Exactly what he said ^^^

[C.A.R.]

The whole torque thing is overrated - they don't seriously lack at all, it's still a 2.0.

They are very well built, seating position could be better (feels a bit high up IMO) and insurance can be a bit alarming too. The one thing they are is involving, I can't comment on how they handle at speed as that's not something you can really do on a test drive, but the VTEC kick is nice:

Consider also the Celica 190/TSport. Often overlooked but only 8bhp down on the Civic and the seating position is a million times better. It's low-slung being a proper coupe rather than a hatchback and as a result it's aesthetically in another league - IMO of course. They're not as common as a Civic Type R but offer a very similar driving experience. I got 36ish MPG from mine and thought that was good going. No cambelt to worry about (runs on chain) and very cheap to service too. About 1 in 8 Celicas have the 190 engine (according to registered cars figures) where most have the 140bhp engine, so they're uncommon even as far as Celicas go....

[7057sam]

Had 6/rallye and mates ep3 for a few weeeks also a accord type are which is the 2.2 ha22a

Yes the they lack toque but sounds the nuts on vtec but then nothing after then vtec etc.

They have LSD's which are great and wheel postion, seat postion and gear stick are great.with a few choice mods you can see 233-240bhp which its low boost territory

---

You're going to run in to the typical forum blinkers on here with this type of question I'm afraid. I'd advise to have a general Google/look on Pistonheads for some less bias views, or better yet, drive one.

I'd have one over a '6. Actually, I'd have a DC2... but still.

Yep yep yep dc2 all

[luke306rallye]

Mate of mine had one, 250ish bhp N/A, different inlet mani and throttle body, 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, Spoon exhaust (way too loud, sound shit IMO) Coilovers, LSD (his didn't come with one standard).
Very good car, but he didn't keep it standard for long.

[THE_Liam]

Steering feel isn't great but grip is impressive, brilliant gearbox, awful ride, ugly as feck, but very well made and reliable...

I'd have a '6 tbh...

[Niall]

Pros of a 6:
Cheap to buy
Easy to fix
Great fun out of the box

Cons of a 6:
Most a bit ropey around the edges
Not fast if you can't use the box due to short ratios

Pros of the civic:
Fantastic seating position (once you get used to it)
Look good - Best of the civics imo
Feel fairly well built

Cons of the civic:
Are not quicker than a 6 or 182 as most owners would have you believe
Expensive to fix even with second hand parts
Poor on fuel for the performance

All imo of course

[1616six]

The ep shape is epic, only driven one type r but amber has a non vtec civic, slow but great to drive, gearbox is great & gearstick location is epic

[Midnightclub]

Turning circle is fairly appalling even in comparison to a '6, expensive'ish to maintain, the lack of torque is noticeable IMO and feels completely dull before VTEC kicks in and they're not very comfy on a daily drive..

They do sound alright though and are probably better on fuel than a '6 on the MW.. VTEC engines are fairly bomb proof too so can't go wrong there.. but as said, drive one and see if you like it

[silverzx]

My Mrs has an EP4 and I love the thing.

Haters gonna hate.

EP3 must be a load more fun.

If money isn't a concern then EP3 over the '6.

However as Niall has rightly pointed out, you can't beat a '6 for overall low costs in comparison.

[lolsteve]

Are these the ones with a torsion bar on the rear?

[powerandtorque]

EP3's are the breadvan shaped one with the wishbone based rear suspension.

[lolsteve]

Ah, just watched the top gear comparison. it's the new shape that has torsion bar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeGAmcLYGQ8

[C.A.R.]

New Astra VXR has Torsion rear beam! So much for it being 'old tech'

No interest in the equivalent Celica then?

[powerandtorque]

No interest in the equivalent Celica then?

It's personal preference at the end of the day - I personally found the Celica 190 an underwhelming and slightly disappointing car when I borrowed the demonstrator from the dealer while my MR2 was getting serviced.

It was probably 10 years ago odd now so I can't remember the finer points, but what I do recall is that it was crying out for an LSD, that the chassis felt a bit bland but wasn't bad and that the engine and gearbox didn't seem particularly well matched with one another.

Maybe I was harsh on it as I'd just stepped out of an MR2 (which was super-agile and handled fantastically) and I was comparing the Celica a DC2 Integra which is frankly sublime, but the Celica 190 just felt like a missed opportunity to me. It looked nice enough, seating position was nice and it went OK if you kept it above 6k rpm (the ratios made that slightly hard work though) but it just lacked the sparkle and finely honed feeling of the 'Teg.

Of course, for half the cost of a EP3 Civic it's potentially worth considering and it's probably on par everywhere except the drivetrain - the engine and gearbox is the EP3's selling point as far as I'm concerned.

I really want to try a DC5 Integra as - on paper at least - it's the fantastic drivetrain from a Civic but with a half decent chassis and proper hydraulic power steering which should give some feel and feedback. They're holding their money well though and obviously all JDM imports.

I've not driven one, but from what I've read the facelift EP3's (2004 ish onwards) had slightly revised suspension/steering which improved things considerably over the earlier cars, if still lacking steering feel.

[C.A.R.]

I can agree with most of that to be honest. I thought out of the box it did handle a bit better than my GTi6 (runs and hides) but the brakes and gearbox were the main problems. The engine was fine, but like you say, keeping it on the boil is the hard part and it can be a bit too much to deal with down a bumpy b-road having to keep looking down at the revs. As a road car though it was so refined, everything worked, climate control was one of the best I've used and it was super comfy. I guess it was a bit of a missed opportunity, but it's certainly more comfortable than a DC2 for the daily grind IMO (only having been in a couple of DC2s...)

In Japan you could get an LSD as an option but very few were specced with it.

Main reason I threw the idea out there though is the price. The cost of the Celica vs. the DC2 / EP3 is about the same as the annual insurance policy on the latter two...

[Piggy]

Who looks down at their revs when nailing it?!

[ozonehostile]

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

[Matt-Rallye]

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

My rallye got caned by a Civic Jordan the other night, especially embarrasing because i baited him out!

Some civics are genuinely fast. Niall it seems has had the fastest GTi-6 ever produced as his is quicker than focus ST's and Ep3 type R's! suprised he needed to supercharge it tbh.

[Piggy]

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

My rallye got caned by a Civic Jordan the other night, especially embarrasing because i baited him out!

Some civics are genuinely fast. Niall it seems has had the fastest GTi-6 ever produced as his is quicker than focus ST's and Ep3 type R's! suprised he needed to supercharge it tbh.

civic jordan is 157bhp and 1260kg....

think you need to drive your rallye a bit better!!!

you have less weight, more bhp and more torque!

[Niall]

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

My rallye got caned by a Civic Jordan the other night, especially embarrasing because i baited him out!

Some civics are genuinely fast. Niall it seems has had the fastest GTi-6 ever produced as his is quicker than focus ST's and Ep3 type R's! suprised he needed to supercharge it tbh.

Either that or yours is just a shit bag considering a few agree with me that the older focus ST is slower than a 6!