MG ZR: Cams & Maps

[lolsteve]

Such revision bordem, wow, many plans

To do list
-Finish exams
-Fix rust on roof by the aerial
-Stick on side skirts
-Check timing properly
-Oil change to some nice Shell helix which will hopefully calm the horrible tapping recently developed
-In the event of timing being off get it to specialist to have vvc properly checked up
-Maybe fit a HID kit and get set up at a garage, with h7r bulbs so not nearly as much glare for other road users
-Exhaust manifold off and tidy up internal welds and heat wrap

So I've come to the understanding that big power will never happen on my budget, unless I give up on summer holiday/track time plans which makes the tuning pointless.
Looking online I've found a guy selling uprated exhaust and inlet vvc cams for around £400 which apparently are a straight fit with the standard ecu. He's set up near Rotherham which is relatively close. However bang for buck it is pretty pricey especially since he doesn't have any confirmed gains.
http://mikesatur.com/acatalog/Online_Cat...ng_15.html

For this years track sessions though I would like to be running 160 +/- 5 with the added bonus of light strippage. Last years sessions I was running around with a 6x9'd parcel shelf, amp and spare wheel in the boot.

[lolsteve]

Oil change done, not alot came out probs 2.5l at most think its lost alot through the rocker gasket. Shell helix is now in so hopefully should be kinder to the engine and stop the tapping

[Niall]

-Maybe fit a HID kit and get set up at a garage, with h7r bulbs so not nearly as much glare for other road users

Even if you buy capped bulbs and have them levelled up properly, you will still get glare. The headlights just aren't designed to scatter HID light properly hence why you get glare.

[procta]

more like you need a lighter shell
mike satur stuff is popular, I have thought about setting mine up a little bit more, for me its getting someone to fit the parts like the cams, as I am not over keen! You not thought about getting it Z&Fd?

[Poodle]

Even if you buy capped bulbs and have them levelled up properly, you will still get glare. The headlights just aren't designed to scatter HID light properly hence why you get glare.

This dude, need projector-style light clusters for hids.

[lolsteve]

Thought h7r bulbs would be alright, makes sense though i guess since the car was never designed for them


Im not changing the shell! Unless it's to a mk2.The thing is people talk about it but have to see anyone say theyve used it. Apart from one guy who put in the uprated inlet cams, but at the same time as a portnpolish and exhaust cam so couldn't comment on how much it improved on its own or before after comparison. I'm interesting in remapping, Jammapic has said he'd take a crack at it if I can find the tool to get the map off the ecu. But first I just want to get the car to stock power before adding more

[procta]

rovers had a very odd piece of diagnostic kit, well the earlier ones did, not sure about the mems3 system.

[lolsteve]

Well I've found a pdf that says the galletto 1260 is capable but no other sources to back that up

Also had a bit of a gander under the car while oil changing, no visible rust which is nice and the arb bushes are red which I assume means I got lucky and im already polybushed

[Carlos182]

Well I've found a pdf that says the galletto 1260 is capable but no other sources to back that up

Also had a bit of a gander under the car while oil changing, no visible rust which is nice and the arb bushes are red which I assume means I got lucky and im already polybushed

Or someome was handy with a paintbrush...?

[Tom]

I really dont mean to come across like a penis so i apologise if i do but, how come you havent got on a rover forum found someone nearby and just got them to check the timing? Instead of this huge thread with the same problem and all these plans for mods and so on and so forth, you could could get someone in the know to give you 20bhp in half hour and cost you like peanuts. Not hating or trying to be an ass, just seems like your working around the problem instead of smashing it out.

[procta]

I really dont mean to come across like a penis so i apologise if i do but, how come you havent got on a rover forum found someone nearby and just got them to check the timing? Instead of this huge thread with the same problem and all these plans for mods and so on and so forth, you could could get someone in the know to give you 20bhp in half hour and cost you like peanuts. Not hating or trying to be an ass, just seems like your working around the problem instead of smashing it out.

Tom he could be the only lad in his area, that has a ZR. like me with the rover metro, i am the only mk3 owner on the road now, it could the very last one in the north east too! so for metro support, i am f*cked.
Also the rover network isn't as big as it was either sadly, i don't think.
every thing rover related tends to be the south side of the border, i had to go to MG live ( sliverstone) for one of the lads to check my metro over.

[lolsteve]

Or someome was handy with a paintbrush...?

could well be

I really dont mean to come across like a penis so i apologise if i do but, how come you havent got on a rover forum found someone nearby and just got them to check the timing? Instead of this huge thread with the same problem and all these plans for mods and so on and so forth, you could could get someone in the know to give you 20bhp in half hour and cost you like peanuts. Not hating or trying to be an ass, just seems like your working around the problem instead of smashing it out.

Point taken and don't worry I've been thinking more or less the same recently, I do agree this thread really hasn't moved much as I would have liked too if anything its just circling around and around.

The problems being before christmas I had no tools and was piss poor I had about £55 a week to live on including bills and rent which really stopped me from being able to pay anyone to do anything. After Christmas when I got a shiney new tool box but I had exams and have spent the last two weeks going to uni in the dark and coming home in the dark, no time to do anything except think what I would like to do when it's all over and done ^hence the list.

Like procta has said there really isn't as much of a community for this I've signed up to about 3 forums asking the problems but the support just isn't there like it is with you guys. Admittley some of the rovertech guys who I meant at castle combe did say online that if they'd know they would have checked for me there and then however apart from that Procta has been more help than those forums combined which reminds me I need to rep him

[procta]

just looking after a fellow 306 boy!

[RetroPug]

To be honest with 400 in spare cash with the intent of developing it for track whilst still being at uni I'd say finish uni, get a stable source of income and then begin proper modifications, and whilst still being at uni spend that 400 on maintenance and repairs and/or more track time rather than mods that have unknown gains, and even if they do produce 10-20bhp, more track time or even tuition will make you faster than a couple of shinies in my opinion.

[lolsteve]

To be honest with 400 in spare cash with the intent of developing it for track whilst still being at uni I'd say finish uni, get a stable source of income and then begin proper modifications, and whilst still being at uni spend that 400 on maintenance and repairs and/or more track time rather than mods that have unknown gains, and even if they do produce 10-20bhp, more track time or even tuition will make you faster than a couple of shinies in my opinion.

Good point well made, university is ending soon anyway so hopefully by the summer time I'll have an income and a place to work on it properly

On the plus side when dropping ladysteves mini off at the mot station today I asked how much for timing to be checked and the guy said he'd do it for nout so long as he wasnt busy on the day

[Poodle]

Did you ever manage to get the vvc mechanism checked out?

[RetroPug]

Good point well made, university is ending soon anyway so hopefully by the summer time I'll have an income and a place to work on it properly

On the plus side when dropping ladysteves mini off at the mot station today I asked how much for timing to be checked and the guy said he'd do it for nout so long as he wasnt busy on the day

I'm in the same boat as you, finishing university this spring/summer and can't wait to hopefully have some decent money coming in and getting some track time in.

[lolsteve]

Did you ever manage to get the vvc mechanism checked out?

Not yet, it's going in tomorrow morning to be checked. It's weird but I really hope the timing is duff :/ Watched a few vvc dyno runs last night they all seem to be pulling 155+ with one pulling 149 and the guy saying it was a poorly engine

I'm in the same boat as you, finishing university this spring/summer and can't wait to hopefully have some decent money coming in and getting some track time in.

Yea it'll be so nice to have some actual money to buy new bits for it so I can enjoy the car to its full potential (not nankangs)
Although now I'm having to throw money at getting the bodywork sorted since the sideskirts are off and a right pain trying to get them back on along with some rust problems

[Carlos182]

If it's not the timing, just strap a blower on to make up for lost power.

[procta]

id leave them off, if they are prone to kill the sills, as the R100s and the metro gtis have this problem.

[Tom]

So the timing situation is what?..

[lolsteve]

F**Ked off good and proper, the timing is fine
Loosing the will with this especially after seeing a few rolling roads videos of other vvc's going 160+ and now my friend is looking at buying one which is apparently 169hp.
Refusing to waste money on performance parts when the car doesn't want to use it's standard parts properly

So here's what I have ruled out/checked/changed so far
-Timing *Fine*
-Compression *Fine*
-Serviced *Oil,air and fuel filter along with fluids*
-Error codes *none, nothing, nope*

[Tom]

Doesnt the vvc timing specifically need checking? Something inside the head?

[Midnightclub]

Apparently so.. http://www.touchepower.talktalk.net/VVC_Timing.htm

This caught my attention "Cam racks are a nightmare if not torqued down carefully, they can nip up the crossshaft easily hence jamming the vvcs."

Might be something else to check?

[lolsteve]

Thing is if the vvc internally isn't timed properly wouldnt the rev's be limited due to an error code. However my engine goes to 7.2k rpm
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/VVC_Information

ECT Sensor low/error limits to 6K RPM
MAP Sensor error limits to 6K RPM
VVC Oil Temp Sensor low/error limites to 6K RPM
VVC Solenoid low resistance (should be 6.6 to 8.8 Ohms) limits to 5.5K RPM
ECU VVC control circuit fried (from wrong battery polarity) limits to 5.5K RPM
Cam Position Sensor limits to 5.5K RPM (The VVC CPS is NSC000010 variable reluctance, different to the standard K16 Hall effect)

[Tom]

What about a blocked cat or a shit air filter?

[Niall]

So basically you have bought a f*cked one?

[Midnightclub]

I don't understand how it can be 20hp down if the timing is spot on, not down on compression, revs to the limit with no problems etc etc..

[Niall]

Im sure this has already been asked but where was it Dyno'd ? Mind you, i know some dynos are over and some under but 20hp is a big error!

[lolsteve]

What about a blocked cat or a shit air filter?

Cat and lambda sensors were replaced a lil while back at great expense to the previous owner -see page 8
Air filter is k&n enclosed, although the caf isn't on it since it kind of got broken off to replace the radiator. Garage gave me some air ducting pipe stuff to make up a feed but it wouldn't cost me that much power?
Besides the garage took it off and ran no filter just inlet pipe facing the fan for a run to see if it was restricting it. Pulled the same number

So basically you have bought a f*cked one?

Starting to seem that way, the more and more I hunt for dyno results the more I'm certain 140 isn't right. For example
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=490168
"at the first MERSEYSIDE DYNO DAY we had a 120 and a 160, both with CAT back stainless exhausts, K&N Air Filters and well maintained, 160 was 159 and the 120 was 120.2." The 160 was apparently 28k on the clock and apparently the cat back systems on these are pretty much empty/unrestrictive as standard. Although the first car pulls 160 with manifold and remap
And another
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=612881

I understand dynos arnt perfect but their graphs show power right up the limiter whereas mine at 6.5k just go flat

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Midnight I have no idea either, it could be something really stupid like a oil sensor stopping vvc working or a leaky gasket I just dont know where next to look without wasting money replacing/breaking everything

It was first dyno'd at autotronix in sheffield along with alot of members on here
http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-18008.ht...lling+road It's says 150 but that's corrected number
Second time was at RStuning in leeds with their big super duper dyno dynamics one