Stage 3 shopping list

[Poodle]

What, really? As in 2.25" with squash bends a cat, midbox and backbox...?

CP1 control is after the pump, it's a bleed-style control system, the FPR being the bleed valve actuator. Does that even make any sense? :S

Don't like the mention of ecm, how exactly are we going to work with that? Would need a dedicated map table or two, surely..?

[Ruan]

Nahhh, I don't mean stock pipe, as long as you have a decent 2.25" system... The ECM = ECU - same thing, it regulates the valve, but as far as I'm concerned, the regulation should be identical to a CP1, as said the regulators - just the duty cycle tables will need changing.

People need to look at what I've said in the past in multiple HDi threads about the valve train on a stock HDi, there's one part of them that will cause issues... Technically it isn't even related normally, but due to the weird low friction design of a HDi, they're like they are, this can be fixed with a simple modification that doesn't really cost that much and is a relatively cheap modification in the grand scheme of things. I've mentioned it countless times on here I'm pretty sure, but simply looking at why I'm saying exhaust manifold pressure and high inlet pressure is a bad thing and looking how the HDi head is designed, you will see where the problem lies. I'm pretty sure in the past I've even told people straight how to fix it!

If the lifters themselves are STILL an issue (though I cannot believe they are) I'd say try and increase oil flow to them.

[Poodle]

Ah ok, did wonder lol.

Oh yeah i realise that's what it means, but on your diagram the regulation is effectively pre-pump. The regulation on the CP1 pumps is post-pump, so unless we can lift map tables wholesale from an ECU which can run a CP3 pump then we'll have to make our own. Got a doc you may be interested in, got a couple of useful diagrams, did try to hit you up on skype last night to send it over.

[Mr Whippy]

The regulator duty cycle map probably isn't so hard to recalibrate. It's mostly a function of the design of the valve and the pressures you put through it.

I'm fairly certain the standard regulator map will be good enough for ANY HP pump, assuming everything else is left alone... and by the same account, the map needs changing even with the same pump and same regulator if you want to run much higher rail pressures, as it's simply not set up for high rail pressures.

Thus we end up back at that point Ruan raised before any way, if your tuning that hard, get upgraded injectors, run the OEM rail pressure system maps/regulator (just with a high flow pump), and spend the money on a better turbo etc.

Pretty sure on the HDi the issue with hydraulic lifter failure is as much a function of trying to ram too much stuff down a small pipe = really high manifold pressures, as it is any design flaw set up for the OEM settings.

Anyone here having lifter issues with hybrids at high pressure? It always seems like people with standard turbos running them very hard, or just with parts in need of refurb etc?!

Dave

[Poodle]

Not really - as we're discussing, the cp3 pumps regulation system is pre-hp, whereas ours is post-hp - the regulation would have to be based on a completely different set of formulas.

This is the problem though, we've not really got any way of proving what the cause is when it comes to valve train failures. Both tom1356 and jonny81191 were running larger turbos at the time of said issue, so it's not necessarily down to the restrictive exhaust side of things. Also, one of the guys to have the problem had a completely stock system, no map or anything, so attributing it purely to back-pressure doesn't seem quite right...

[Jonny81191]

Just to add to that..

I'm running a bigger blower, yes. But I also machined out the manifold and the exhaust outlet is 3", so backpressure won't be as much as if I'd just bolted the stock exhaust on with an adaptor.

Also, from what i can see, there is no evidence of a lifter or rocker being damaged or broken, I've just fitted another head so we'll see what happens tomorrow when I start it up.

[Dum-Dum]

Im gonna go for another angle that you all haven't considered here in your shopping list.

Its not really necessary to buy but itll wear out FAST

Oil, oil filters, fuel filters air filters - your sucking serious volumes of air and fuel, you will clog them fast
Tyres - you can expect 5000 miles from the fronts if you use the power, less if you abuse tyres
Brakes - stage 3 allows serious speed and so expect to regularly need new brake pads.
Gear boxes - stripping 5th gear is easy, my black car managed it twice
Clutches - even a clutch that can handle the power Ive managed to snap springs on
CV joints - yep, lowered car, big power theyll wear out faster.
Engine mounts - Group n ones are good, pattern parts wont last a week.

[Ruan]

A lot of this is torque and violence of torque IMHO.

I've not had half of these issues because I've never let the turbo come in too soon doing so will just wreck the clutch, do in the engine mounts, ra*e the CV joints, having stock turbos producing the power at 2500rpm etc is prime to do this with 280-300lb.ft of torque. Especially as it jumps in VERY fast.

Make the torque come in gradually but produce the power higher and IMHO a lot of these issues will stop. Big power TDis are getting away from these problems by making the power come in higher up.



If TDis are able to cope with this with simply uprated clutches, I'm sure we muts be able to

600nM (442lb.ft) at 2600RPM... Above 200hp from 2500rpm to over 5500RPM, above 250hp from 3000rpm to 5500rpm...

[londondan86]

I'm quite gentle at feeding in the power, habit from smoke reduction on the xud!

That is a monster up there Ruan! What is it?

[Arron]

Is that graph for a 1.9 TDi?

Why gentle?! Saying that even stage 2 lights the tires up in anything other than dry in 2nd. I did think the manifolds may be a restriction, just theory really asking so much more over stock.

[Ruan]

Yup, 1.9TDi which in honesty is not as well developed as the 8v HDi.

Gentle power makes cars feel slower but places less strain on components, makes it easier to drive... The violence simply is a peak in the middle until everything runs out of efficiency... Make everything capable of moving the power band above 3000rpm and you dont need the torque to make the power...

[Poodle]

The manifold? What makes you think that?