The real cause of injector rattle?

[welshpug]

if its running at 70 degrees you need a new thermostat.

[JTaylor2005]

Yeahh I'm getting one soon tbf. Even with cardboard in front of it just been for a drive and got 80c ish thrashing it haha

[td163]

Reading this seems like reading my own life lol. I like you have a low milage HDI at 88k with really loud rattle. I have swapped the injectors (to 076), swapped the crank pulley twice, sound deadened each injector and engine cover & run with 2 stroke. Nothing has helped as much as it could. The annoying this is a work mates stage 2 hdi with higher mileage does not have this issue. I moan daily too everyone about this, only difference is he has a exhaust system making his sound louder so I'm hoping putting my one on muffled the rattle.

---

I've spend hundreds trying to get this gone lol.

[welshpug]

all I did on my sisters C5 was fit new injectors and seals, no point messing with used items.

[td163]

But they cost as much as the car lmao.

[welshpug]

no, car was a grand.

[Poodle]

Hdi thermostat opens at 83. If you want to bring combustion temperatures down getting a higher rated thermostat would help, but ideally you need to warm the inlet charge. Part of the function of the egr systems are to bring combustion temperatures down when cruising, they do it for emissions purposes, but the effect is the same. Tbh i'm not convinced it'll help all that much though.

[pro_steve]

I have noticed that everything but the 306 and the 206 seems to run nearer 90. Different gauge, or different thermostat?

My van (with a big IC blocking the radiator) got up to about 100C the other day sat in traffic (no fan fitted at that point) and still goes above 90 if I thrash it in the heat even with a fan fitted. Don't think the fan comes on 'til 93 or 97 IIRC. Maybe try a berlingo thermostat, see if it runs hotter?

[JTaylor2005]

Well mime was anywhere between 70-80c then I changed the stat and that never solved it. Then replaced the temp sensor in the side of the block and now it warms up and sits dead on 84c.
Will see how it goes now. But yeah maybe worth looking at those. I have looked at the 406/307/206 ones and they are all identical to the 306 one.

[cully]

the temp gauge reads a different sensor than the ecu temp sensor even though its in the same package

the temp gauge could read zero without affecting the engine running, as the ecu calculates off its own sensor, the only way to read this is via diag software, i watch mine via a scan gauge, with that you can see the temp rise to 84 then drop back to 80 as the stat opens

[JTaylor2005]

Where is that one then?

I found the one just left of the back of the air box and pulled the plug off. When I did that the fans came on, the temp gauge went off and I got the stop warning light flashing.

[welshpug]

not sure on the 306, but the late 3 plug saxo only used a single sender.

[Jonny81191]

not sure on the 306, but the late 3 plug saxo only used a single sender.

The links in your sig would help you there...

[JTaylor2005]

Yeah looking at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual for the 306 shows that there is only one on the HDI.

It has 3 wires. Two go back to the ecu (one for power and one for the temp signal) and then one goes up to the clocks on the dashboard for the gauge up there.

---

Looking at the diagram it shows that there are two variable resistors inside the temperature sensor.

One is in line with the two cables that come from the ecu. This is a closed circuit so even if you had a bad earth it would still function correctly.

The other variable resistor which is for the dash gauge just goes straight down to earth. My guess would be that the lower the resistance is the higher the gauge would read. If you have a  bit of corrosion on the plug, pins, or connection to the block the earth wouldn't be very good meaning it would see more resistance than it should and give a lower and unreliable reading to the gauge.

That would explain why you could see different readings om the dash compared to the software.

[cully]

bad earth's would make the dash gauge go screwy

   

[Ruan]

Which wouldn't make the ECU go screwy and have different temperature readings, therefore different Pre-Injection corrections, since the ECU has it's own internal reference.

[JTaylor2005]

Nope but never mind I have fixed something that everyone has just excepted as normal for years lol

---

However there is nothing to say that the other part of my sensor wasn't also worn out. Just don't know

[Poodle]

What's that, your injectors? How have you stopped them ticking then?

[JTaylor2005]

So then. Update on this thread. My car has always often run around 80ish degrees maximum really. Unless I really give it some and then it gets up a little higher to nearly 90.

I have also noticed that at 90c the injector rattle is significantly reduced. To the point of being pretty much un-noticeable. So I have done some more research. I have slid a large piece of cardboard down the rad. It covers the right half of the rad totally leaving the left half to do the job of cooling the car.

Now within about 10 minutes of driving its sat comfortably at just very slightly under the 90 mark on the gauge. Probably roughly 89ish degrees. Caning it to the top of a stupidly steep hill near mine just tips it over the other side of the 90 so around 93ish.

However once at 89+ there is no injector noise at all thats noticeable in the car. Its brilliant haha. It used to do my head in. Now I know that once I have got it warm it will totally go away. So it seems to be related to engine temperature some how still. Either way 90c makes it much quieter and much nicer to drive around without the annoying rattle noise.

[MY95]

Good use of trial and error there
What are the actual normal/optimum running temperature for these? After searching it looks like its around 80 degrees for the HDI 90, parents DV6 always goes straight up to 90 and stays there (warms up a lot quicker than mine, and also stays warm much longer after both cars have been shut down)

[JTaylor2005]

No idea. I have hardly ever seen a car that doesn't run at 90 on the gauge. So now mine runs at 90 and it seems to be much quieter and smoother. Which is great

[Niall]

Now i dont know much about these engines so may be talking shit (usually do) but if they all normally run at 80ish then i would imagine peugeot designed it to run at that so what sort of implications are there to running it at 90 if any?

[JTaylor2005]

Not a clue. Shall find out but tbf so long as I am not boiling the coolant or causing it to go into the red zone on the temperature gauge I can't see anything going wrong really.

---

Looking at the manual for the car its like I have always assumed. It says if the temperature is in
"Zone A - Between the 70 marker and the marker just before the red section" then the car is running at correct temperature.
Zone B - which is the red marked part. Is then overheating and turn off the engine.

[welshpug]

most factory stats are 83 but there are 88/89 used as well.

have you tried a genuine thermostat?

[JTaylor2005]

I have just ordered a gates one along with my suspension stuff. However its running nice now so will change it and see if it stays at 90 and if it doesn't then the cardboard will be going back in haha

---

Be interesting to see what sort of difference it has on MPG running a warmer engine.

[Poodle]

Some of the newer 8v hdis run 88 degree (iirc) stats, it was something i always intended to try with a view to improving efficiency. If it quietens injector rattle too that's a bonus!

[JTaylor2005]

I does seem to have improved it quite a bit. I haven't got two stroke in either atm. Just bp regular diesel so thats even more of a bonus haha

[DeeTurbo]

I have just ordered a gates one along with my suspension stuff. However its running nice now so will change it and see if it stays at 90 and if it doesn't then the cardboard will be going back in haha

---

Be interesting to see what sort of difference it has on MPG running a warmer engine.

I wonder what effect it has on the fuel temps.

What year is your car and does it have the little back box under the engine cove (electric fuel heater) or is the fuel headed via the stat housing?

[JTaylor2005]

Same. And I am not sure I have a 1999 model one. T reg. I will have a look where are u looking to see that?

[DeeTurbo]

Yours will be the stat warmer type so that will be interesting on the fuel temp.

Do you have access to pp2k or a good diag tool with live data on it?