9mm vs 11mm pumps

[mark_airey]

Why does this feel like the way tb is with mapping? :/ People keep saying that the information is freely available and is all over other forums, then why not make it all over our forum? I really dont get the secrecy, yes I appreciate that some of you guys have spent loads of time reading various forums and actually stripping pumps back ect. but most people wont have the capacity to strip a pump :/ things wont move forward if everyone keeps things to themselves or within a handful of people

Because people trying to change things by following guides and not actually having a f*cking clue what they are changing and/or why they are changing it only leads to millions of threads where people have f*cked it up for this exact reason, IMO for things like this, you need to have an understanding of how the pump works and of what everything does so that you know what you are changing and why your changing it so you don't do it wrong in the first place and if something does go wrong then you will have a good enough understanding to work out why and to fix it....................

Its not quite as simple as "swap this for this, change this setting to this" so in a way if people have to find this info for themselves they also end up learning how it all works at the same time?

[darrenjlobb]

If you cant learn / teach yourself, then you clearly arnt bothered enough / competent enough to be trying... Its only fair that everyone makes the same effort, and its hardly hard with the ammount of info on the net....and as for other information, the only way to to try it hand for hand, and see the results etc, this takes alot of time / work, and for all the people that do this kinda thing, will agree that its only fair people find out for themselves, and dont post there results if they dont want to....

[Dave]

Phil was joking guys, the giveaway was the "lololololol", for future reference.

Just saying people want to know for the sake of knowing and because they'd like to think that, while they're not quite on your level, maybe they're not far behind. Whereas the reality is that anyone who wants/needs to know enough will have already found out for themselves, everyone else is just nosey. Like me! Lol.

This sums it up really... if you had fuelling issues and needed more fuel... you would have looked into other fuelling options a long time ago.... its just no one really needs more fuel, therefore hasn't researched into it beyond this forum....

I very much doubt anyone is running an 11mm pump maxed out... I doubt anyone is running a 9mm pump maxed out...

[Ed Doe]

This sums it up really... if you had fuelling issues and needed more fuel... you would have looked into other fuelling options a long time ago.... its just no one really needs more fuel, therefore hasn't researched into it beyond this forum....

I very much doubt anyone is running an 11mm pump maxed out... I doubt anyone is running a 9mm pump maxed out...

^ this!

Even tdo4s aren't at the limit of a 'bodged' 11mm pump. By contrast the modifications to permit more fuel can have significant effects on the drivability of the car, even if you know what you're doing, so for someone to 'follow a guide' on it is silly. Some stuff takes a lot of knowledge and setting up to get it working anything like properly.

I don't even know the half of what people are doing these days with pump internals, all I know is if I had reached the limit of the pump whilst pushing the boundaries, and I'd spent ages researching the next step, I wouldn't be telling all and sundry how to make their car as quick as mine. Specially if they haven't bothered to work anything out for themselves.

[Dan!]

The contrast between different 'communities' is very odd...

[Jake]

This sums it up really... if you had fuelling issues and needed more fuel... you would have looked into other fuelling options a long time ago.... its just no one really needs more fuel, therefore hasn't researched into it beyond this forum....

I very much doubt anyone is running an 11mm pump maxed out... I doubt anyone is running a 9mm pump maxed out...

^ this!

Even tdo4s aren't at the limit of a 'bodged' 11mm pump. .

I doubt that a tdo4 would be limited by a gov'd 9mm pump tbh, I was running 32psi on my k14 after the td04 was on I turned the fuel up a tad and it made 25 psi and it's coaling on boost at that, so with the boost wound up full I recon it could fuel the td04 to it's limit or at least up to 35-40+ ish psi.

[darrenjlobb]

Trouble is even in here there's lack of knolage going on,

A 9mm pump could make 200 hp say on one turbo, but less on a bigger one....due to rpms...

The problem with bigger turbos is the power moves up the revs, and this then has a totally different effect on pump delivery, VE's basically dont like revving at all in stock form, you need to do alot of work to the timing system / fuel system to make them function remotely decently at higher rpms, a typical 11mm conversion consisting of say a stock pump, with 11mm head and govmod, which is what most people build themselves at home, is capable of stupidpendous amounts of power at 2000-3800rpm, like literally 250-300hp of fuel no issues at all, but the issue most of you will be getting is your blowers, that are capable of 250-300hp, (well not many running turbos that big but you catch the drift) dont come in to there peak until 3500-5500rpm +, by this point the ve is running out of flow / timing, and you make naff all power, but still able to blow CHRONIC fuel down low, and just turns into a vicious circle trying to make power up high, making low down worse and worse.

Theres arguements against 9 /10/ 11/12mm heads, each has gains / loss's. and at the end of the day, depends what your trying to do, but for home conversions where you cant calibrate A timing and B flow, id go to 10mm at most, and only then after maxing out the 9mm pump in the first place, as nothing will work as stock better than the 9mm as thats what the pump was calibrated for in the first place.

This is obviously referring to IDI, as with DI, its a totally different game altogether.

[d-jimbo]

maybe more people will get into 306's if the info is more readily available on here without having to go through VAGaygay forums? i'm not saying it should be handed out willy nilly cos often a little information is a dangerous thing. a little insight as to where info has been gathered and what people have done would surely only help the 306 scene?

[n0v0s]

This may sound harsh, but you really have to be stupid to think only our peugeots have bosch pumps... We're so fkin behind with our xud9s it's unreal! Is this because of lack of info? Nahh, imo. Even if it was freely avail. Not many would splash out/ everyone would have the same (td04 lol) - baaaaaaaa (sheep). This is the general nature of our members - not all ofc

There are some very helpful members on this forum, but even they had to learn/read... So if you can use your noggin a bit and the search bar on vwdiesel.net/google ... You'll find what you need enjoy!

[Ruan]

Trust me, if you look, the information is everywhere.

There's SO much that can be done if you look.

The entire problem with this community is that at the end of the day - the only reason they're driving a 306 is because they couldn't afford a Mk4 Golf...

[Toby]

the only reason they're driving a 306 is because they couldn't afford a Mk4 Golf...

GTFO

[n0v0s]

:puke-huge: :puke-huge:

the only reason they're driving a 306 is because they couldn't afford a Mk4 Golf...

GTFO

[Dan!]

Funny thing is, all this info that is apparently on vwdiesel.net, was posted up by somebody/people who probably spent hours/days pulling pumps apart and physically testing stuff until they found out that 'xxx' works well and 'xxx' isnt worth doing etc etc blah blah. And if they hadnt posted up about their findings on the internet then the knowledge some people have would still be unknown! Imo saying 'go on vwdiesel.net' because you dont want to tell people info first hand is pretty shitty advice in its own, because all people do then is go onto another forum and get told how to do stuff by somebody else, not neccesarily LEARN anything. Whats the difference between someone on here telling you how to do something than somebody else on the internet telling you to do something?!


Not having a paddy, because I honestly couldnt give 2 shits about wether people tell me stuff or not, just seems a bit odd and elitist!

[Toby]

I honestly couldnt give 2 shits about wether people tell me stuff or not

Santa Claus isn't real. :violin:

[Dan!]

Hehe, shhh you!

Seriously though, I dont even have a 306, the only reason I look at stuff like this/discuss it is just out of interest....

[mark_airey]

If you want to learn then read........ http://dandjribbans.blogspot.co.uk/2008 ... urces.html

[n0v0s]

If someone has time to re-write all the req info, then that would be grand. I don't. But i have time to write go to 'blaah blaah'. Simples. Someone re-write it nothing will change till then.. But what diff does it make to someones 'learning' if its from this site or not?

I'm not elitist but i see where you're coming from dan.. But for me being 'high up' on the tinternet isn't something i crave tbh, no... I can be elitist when i start making some monies.. jokezzz y0 i want biggest e.penis really

On most of our duscussions, how many people actually contribute something useful though?

[Dave]

Yeh I friggin love talking about pump porn.... favourite part of the car, bar the turbo

I still wouldnt want someone to make a replica of my pump though, purely because i've spent many hours discovering stuff myself. So many things can be learnt about the pump simply by just stripping one?? Many people here have 11mm pumps, so go and strip the old transit pump it came off, they are 99% the same, and alot of things become clear about where advantages and improvements can be made.

And if you dont have the time/facilities/confidence to find out, then your not in any position to do any modifications yourself anyway....

[cwspellowe]

If you want to learn then read........ http://dandjribbans.blogspot.co.uk/2008 ... urces.html

Wow, was not expecting THAT when I saw the picture at the top

[mark_airey]

random useful page I found

[darrenjlobb]

vwdiesel.net isnt acually that well informed imo...theres alot of intresting threads on there, and its a good starting point, but alot of the "rumours" over there are incorrect, and theres alot of bull being spouted, which you will realise over time, as I used to read that forum like gospel, but have realised over the years that alot of it is just bigged up gossip just like stuff is over here. But certainly a good place to start as there's lots of stuff regarding workings of the pumps inside.

As for Ruans post, meh, no one I know on here would consider owning a mk4 golf even if they won the lottery, so deffo not why I have a 306!!

The point is, that tbh, the hardcore / real usefull info isnt acaully all over the net, what is all over the net is the routes / ways you can work it out, but always comes down to the same thing in the end, get your hands dirty and find out for yourself... The one thing ive learnt over time is never believe something cant be done just because 50 people on a forum say you cant, as half the time its a load of crap and just an opinion that over time doing its rounds across forums has become fact, but often isnt!

[Ruan]

As for Ruans post, meh, no one I know on here would consider owning a mk4 golf even if they won the lottery, so deffo not why I have a 306!!

I more meant the fact that they're trying to do motoring on a budget... Therefore 99% of the time the money won't be spent where it needs to be... They go for the whole "why spend money on a shitty french diesel when you could put it towards a better car"....

I wouldn't have a mk4 Golf - I'd rather eat my own faeces.... I do live for the 306 however.

[Dum-Dum]

Guys im going to lock this thread if the "information sharing" argument dosent desist.

for my 2p worth you dont really understand how anything works untill youve taken it apart. Same goes for engines as well as pumps and that.

You can get a bosch pump for £40 so buy one and have a go at taking one apart and youll understand it ALOT better.

[darrenjlobb]

Guys im going to lock this thread if the "information sharing" argument dosent desist.

for my 2p worth you dont really understand how anything works untill youve taken it apart. Same goes for engines as well as pumps and that.

You can get a bosch pump for £40 so buy one and have a go at taking one apart and youll understand it ALOT better.

What argument??

[Toby]

Guys im going to lock this thread if the "information sharing" argument dosent desist.

for my 2p worth you dont really understand how anything works untill youve taken it apart. Same goes for engines as well as pumps and that.

You can get a bosch pump for £40 so buy one and have a go at taking one apart and youll understand it ALOT better.

What argument??

+1, what are you on about?

[mark_airey]

I +1 the two posts above, what argument are you going to lock the thread over again?

[Dave]

Yeh this thread is epic, love pump discussions :music-rockon:

[Dum-Dum]

I +1 the two posts above, what argument are you going to lock the thread over again?

Its all through the last 2 pages. Ive just read it all in 1 go so it seems obvious to me. I wouldnt threaten to lock a thread if there was no need.

[darrenjlobb]

Well dont because there's useful conversation going on here between derv heads

[Dave]

Darren you should get your video guide up...