MG ZR: Cams & Maps

[lolsteve]

Also thinking of doing this to stop the glovebox rattles
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=439989

[jammapic]

Are you coming down to DervTech tomorrow mate? Want that blue skip gone

[lolsteve]

Yea guessing you'll be down early?
Was hoping that the nut splitters I ordered would have arrived by now as that would have helped get that back box and anti roll bar off. Don't want to let bluey go with those on

[lolsteve]

Had "fun" trying to get the old rear anti roll bar off bluey this weekend ending up breaking part of the thread and then giving up...
But I'm stubborn and I know it'll eat me up inside if I don't at least try and get it off even if it breaks it in the process so I bought a angle grinder
http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb281gr...240v/93905
Only a cheap one but should do the job. Will get a wirebrush attachment and use it to help remove some of the unsightly rust, help freshen up the old gal. Thinking of painting up the suspension parts in black hammerite to give it a fresh look/stop rust

Also developed an annoying window problem, goes down fine but on the way back up it seems to really struggle and strain the car/battery. Any thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCVZ20p...e=youtu.be

[Seb_Ryan]

Tried lubing up the runner etc? Always harder to get it up than to get it down..

[procta]

Had "fun" trying to get the old rear anti roll bar off bluey this weekend ending up breaking part of the thread and then giving up...
But I'm stubborn and I know it'll eat me up inside if I don't at least try and get it off even if it breaks it in the process so I bought a angle grinder
http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb281gr...240v/93905
Only a cheap one but should do the job. Will get a wirebrush attachment and use it to help remove some of the unsightly rust, help freshen up the old gal. Thinking of painting up the suspension parts in black hammerite to give it a fresh look/stop rust

Also developed an annoying window problem, goes down fine but on the way back up it seems to really struggle and strain the car/battery. Any thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCVZ20p...e=youtu.be

you want to see the battle i had with the gta, trying to get the tank out of that, no way was that car going to give that up or its rear subframe!

[lolsteve]

Been playing with the mapping again today. Trying to get an overrun burble , not a loud pop & bang but something for when coming off the throttle at high rpm for a little bit of race car smile

Unfortunately that's not been achieved trying retarding ignition timing back to 10 degrees & then 1 degree before TDC but no luck there apart from maybe 2 small pops but that may not have even been the map. Tried at 10 after TDC and nothing still.
Also changed what I thought was a injector cut off map but alas it was something else and the car wouldn't start. Put original file back on and after a couple of turns its back to normal.

[jammapic]

You need to leave the injection on, lean it right out at the lowest load site, and retard the timing by a few degrees. If you go too far, or too lean it won't work... I've found that around 19:1 AFR, and -4deg is perfect on a GTi6

https://vimeo.com/119683585

[lolsteve]

Haven't had any luck trying to find the injection control though. Thought it might be this. So the fuel increases from 1700 to smooth out the injector turn on which is apparently at about 1600 rpm.
But as said it just made the car not start 

[vinny]

theres no power difference on the bigger throttle bodies the 48 mm produces same as the 52mm but the 52 gives better throttle response thats all 56 mm is pointless, i used to work at janspeed and we did all the development for ptp and xpower and all the xpower branded parts came from janspeed and i did the heads.

[jammapic]

Steve, thats the problem then. You need to leave the injection on at closed throttle.

Other option is to move the load header from 0% to 1% to keep it from shutting the injectors off, but you might find it shares a header with a different map, so can't be changed.

[lolsteve]

Vinny, http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DIY...placement/
Guess this would back up what you say, although its tested on a 120 engine, perhaps the 160 requires the extra flow capacity?

Yea I thought i'd just try the ignition first as a couple of sites had said they just moved timing right back and it worked. Perhaps different things for turbo
Do you mean removing the ability for the ecu to see below 1%?
The injection map reads 5-90% and the idle reads at 3.9% so there must be something else controlling it when off the throttle

[vinny]

Cracking engine. Unless its already had it, make sure you get a MLG for a freelander. Solves all the HG issues. I had the same engine in a Rover Coupe and was the most reliable car i've had in 8 years of driving.

Although i would have looked for a BRM.

also make sure ur liners are 2 thou proud of the block or ur waisting ur time and money

[lolsteve]

I just go by the finger nail method. If I run my nail accords the block and it catches the liner then she'll be rite. Not scientific but it'll do 



Also been flicking through blueys old ecu file as it's occurred to me it's a bit different to all the other 160 ecus I've seen. have heard rumours the first 160s came out with 143 ecus but this doesn't even match the values from that, seems like a half way point between the two. Perhaps something to do with bluey s poor performance?  Either way doesnt matter onwards and upwards with the mk2
got a quote on repairing the rust/scratches/dents today. About 400 quid which seems reasonable and should get it looking pristine In time for show season

[7057sam]

Does this feel noticeable faster ??

Yeah get it booked in mate,can't wait to see this and maybe another passenger ride round combe

[procta]

I just go by the finger nail method. If I run my nail accords the block and it catches the liner then she'll be rite. Not scientific but it'll do 



Also been flicking through blueys old ecu file as it's occurred to me it's a bit different to all the other 160 ecus I've seen. have heard rumours the first 160s came out with 143 ecus but this doesn't even match the values from that, seems like a half way point between the two. Perhaps something to do with bluey s poor performance?  Either way doesnt matter onwards and upwards with the mk2
got a quote on repairing the rust/scratches/dents today. About 400 quid which seems reasonable and should get it looking pristine In time for show season

I think the blue one had been badly f*cked with tbh, before you had it. probably needed a massive over haul to have gotten that back to 100%
seen a few cars like that on rover forums over the years.
Anyway let that all die with the blue car as you say and push onwards as you say with the mk2.
That's about right I would say for the rear quarter as I have paid those prices for my cars rear quarters in the past.
you want to be looking out for some rover extras too, if this didn't have any.

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Also thinking of doing this to stop the glovebox rattles
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=439989

haha just seen that steve! the early rover metros had that feature!  not sure if I have the photos in my thread,  just shows you how much cost cutting they did later on!

[lolsteve]

Does this feel noticeable faster ??

Yeah get it booked in mate,can't wait to see this and maybe another passenger ride round combe

Despite having a massively blowing exhaust by the cat, engine oil that was pretty much sludge and the whole thing had been sat for 18 months it felt faster than bluey had done before mapping. Low down it was weaker but thats possibly due to the above as 5 gear pull was non exsistant but once going it felt to have more go.
Just need to sort financial priorities at the moment as there quite a few things that I'd like to be buying for either fixing the mk2 or investing in the remapping. Sadly everything seems to be costing £££
Got two sessions booked so can finally see if this can beat a gti6  
Also got Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres on now, not overly impressed so far seem not much beter than kangs tbh as I'm still able to light them up in first or slide on slightly damp corners. Still better than the autogrip that was on there  

Sometimes I think that Procta othertimes I think Bluey must have just drawn the short straw and got the odd ecu etc. Engine on her was good (except for oil leaks) its just never felt like she was all there.
Wondering if its worth trying for a mobile place to see if it'd be cheaper but think this might be a case where I would just rather pay the extra and get a decent finish rather than trying to save 50 quid and always notice it there
This has the additional reverse sensors which is quite nice, ruins the look of the bumper for me but is handy for parking. Although i get why people can easily become dependent on them 

Also going to try and add some sound deadening to this one as although it's additional weight the "cut backs" on the mk2 really do show sometimes with the tinny sounds it makes. I ripped some of the sound deadning off the back of blueys door cards in case that was removed so it can be rebuilt to a bit of a higher standard. Also going to order some silent coat for the front doors as it's only about £15 

[vinny]

I am not a fan of these, just a posh 200 bubble.  
remember to use the red coolant with this engine, also 1100 for that is peanuts, the engine is was worth 500 quid. engine is very smooth and you can really feel it pickup the pace.  you can get the engine remapped to by Z and F. not to sure what you will get from it.

Something slightly less boring to drive but still horrible to look at?

like i say, i am not sure what he would again if any, as your better off solid cam the engine and going throttle bodies.

the last head i did for one of these had 285 degree hydraulic cams jenvys running on emerald made 204 bhp the valves were standard size

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Oh and it also has a RACtrackstar tracking system which receipts show it being £450

Who'd nick it though?!

Fair play, they're a decent little shed for the money. The Bodykit is vile though, and those seats look like the seat covers you used to be able to buy from Argos.

Does it 'feel' like 160bhp?

they are not 160 a good one is 156bhp

[vinny]

also buy the full janspeed system too! as I have seen these in action with the janspeed and it does work wonder on them too! plus the sound aswell!

I have a janspeed backbox, not a full system like the advert said Looking at the manifolds at the moment considering getting one and a decat pipe then putting the original cat on the decat pipe. Since the manifold only works with janspeed cat systems and a decat on the k series looses power.

where have you heard that shit from about the kseries looses power?
mines decatted and it pulls like a train!  the shell is a J plater.
they are fussy on back pressure that's all, if you put a too big a bore on they dont like it.
I spoke to the ex mg rover works team engineer at mg live. he gave me a few good pointers with these engines,

its true u can not gain ne thing removing cat or even loose power

[lolsteve]

My blue one was 140 when I got it rolled, think she was a bit poorly back then. This mk2 is getting rollled tomorrow with the stock manifold to do a before/after test to see if the mapping makes a difference/check not running too rich or lean etc

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.ph...ost1885537
Think theres been some testing on the decat effects on ZRs too and the consensus is it's not worthwhile

[lolsteve]

So its been a pretty shitty weekend



Friday afternoon went to rolling road place to get exhaust welded and put on for a before/after map waited about 2 and a half -3 hours to be told nah too busy come back tomorrow. So bummed that I'd waited Friday I tried to do a fuel filter change as needed doing after having been say fir 18 months.  
Bottom nut connecting fuel line to filter rounded off and thw filter split so couldnt put it back together. so Friday had been a total shit stain of a day. 
Saturday had 2 friends come over to get some bits off bluey however we decided they see if we could do they one filter first , we tried molt grips, filing down the nut to a 13 and out all our force into it resulting in..The filter shearing off leaving the fuel line with a chunk of filter on it.  Became apparent it was a original rover part and it had been cross threaded into the filter. Some top class build quality there.
phoned rolling road place to ask of they can do a fuel line change too as this one line runs from engine bay to fuel tank. They said they'd do it but they were closing in an hour and a half so better be quick if we want to get it to them. Luckily it was only a mile down the road so with a quick trip to halfords to grab a tow rope my friends zs made a very rough towing down to the garage. note the clenched buttocks all the way down and the 10 learner drivers who apparently were learning to drive on that road at that specific time. 
So that was Saturday, nothing gained and everything lost. 
Saturday evening saved it through beers and nazi zombies 
Sunday was snow


So that's the weekend not been the best I've had tbh cost me a fair bit and the only thing I have to show for it is a halfords tow rope of which the metal hook clip thing has broken 

[procta]

well I bet that's why bluey was running like a piece of shite! a fuel filter that's been on since the car was built! fuckin hell the fuel system must have been proper poor!

[Eeyore]

400 to repair that? are you having a giggle? Surely you could have got a minter for less than the cost of this plus 400?

[lolsteve]

well I bet that's why bluey was running like a piece of shite! a fuel filter that's been on since the car was built! fuckin hell the fuel system must have been proper poor!

This fuel filter thing is on the MK2, somewhat annoying as no doubt men before myself have come along see it's crossthreaded and walked away rather than sorting it out

400 to repair that? are you having a giggle? Surely you could have got a minter for less than the cost of this plus 400?

A minter mk2 160 is worth about 1200-1500. Much more than a mint mk1. And even a "minter" will still have rusty arches/wings. At least this way it would all be fresh...er

 

[procta]

how bad is it? cause you might be able to get the fuel lines for it,

[lolsteve]

You know the 19mm nut on the bottom of the fuel filter? That's sheared off and is stuck on the fuel line. Rimmerbro sell a replacement so just given it to a garage to sort along with the blowing exhaust. Then once it's all good ill try and get it rolling roaded

[procta]

pain in the arse that is! I know the fuel filters do change from models, as mine had an mpi fuel line setup, rather for the spi. Which was very odd in deed for its age, I never touched the fuel lines on the car at all. so looks like the previous owner had done.

[lolsteve]

Possibly a rover parts bin special?

New spark plugs arrived today, 4 Rover oem delivered for £15 so that combined with the new filter and fixed exhaust blow should help smooth out the minor misfire(?) it had plus release a few ponies in time for the rolling road. Really cant wait and pumped for the results to see if this one really has a better stock figure

On the plus side of having the car in the garage I realised I hate buses and that the walk to work/back from work is feasible and is faster than the bus so will now be reducing the mileage on the Mk2 and stop it being used for such small journeys so healthy engine and more cash in my pocket

[procta]

Possibly a rover parts bin special?

New spark plugs arrived today, 4 Rover oem delivered for £15 so that combined with the new filter and fixed exhaust blow should help smooth out the minor misfire(?) it had plus release a few ponies in time for the rolling road. Really cant wait and pumped for the results to see if this one really has a better stock figure

On the plus side of having the car in the garage I realised I hate buses and that the walk to work/back from work is feasible and is faster than the bus so will now be reducing the mileage on the Mk2 and stop it being used for such small journeys so healthy engine and more cash in my pocket

god knows with rovers,

nice to hear your getting this sorted out, Why don't you just buy some of the better stuff? ITG panel filter etc?

[lolsteve]

It's got a K&N enclosed air filter on it although it needs a clean. Tbh I would rather spend the money on getting it serviced/fixed up than induction stuff that'll probably make naff all difference
also ordered some coolant as remembered the stuff in there has turned a funky colour so could do with cleaning out. along with some ht leads to be sure the misfire is fixed and since I think the leads are originals

Car is booked in for a track day in March, April and soon the FCS/Pugfest. Going to be a busy time and I hope she does me proud