TDI not HDi, help please! :(

[Toms306]

Hi guys, very reluctant to post this on here but I've tried vag forums and got nowhere as usual. Would have put this in other marques but there doesnt seem to be one.

In one of the golfs (130PD ASZ) I have a bad juddering at full throttle in high gear from low revs, eg, booting it in 6th from 40mph. Now if I plough through it, it goes at around 1800 rpm (60ish).

Now, I expect labouring in that situation but this is much more severe and feels like someone is pulling and pushing on the drivers seat!

Basically, I don't even know where to start looking for the problem! My ideas are clutch, dmf, gearbox, injectors, fuel filter, engine mount? I wanted to read codes at college incase it showed an injector fault but didn't get a chance today.

So, any more ideas? Or how can i check certain components to rule them out?

I'm well aware this is a Pug forum but I know lots of you are knowledgeable on other cars too!

Any help appreciated,
Thanks
Tom.

[cully]

is this the one thats the college project?
maybe take it to college and get your lecturer to teach you about cars

[Tom]

Could be clutch judder? Or has it just suddenly started? I imagine clutch judder would slowly get worse and worse

Edit: actually i think that would be the clutch slipping underload but in a jumpy fashion not just sliding around if you get me?

[Dan!]

Sounds like a clutch problem to me, oops.... ££££££

[Toms306]

Could be clutch judder? Or has it just suddenly started? I imagine clutch judder would slowly get worse and worse

Edit: actually i think that would be the clutch slipping underload but in a jumpy fashion not just sliding around if you get me?

I don't think the clutch is slipping as it goes like shit off a shovel in 3rd from 30-80 with no slip, and the regs don't jump like I'd expect with a juddery slipping. :think:

[Toms306]

Sounds like a clutch problem to me, oops.... ££££££

I'm hoping it IS the cluth or DMF as they'll be getting uprated soon anyway lol......I'm just dreading it being gearbox or objectors which I wasn't planning on changing!

[Toms306]

is this the one thats the college project?
maybe take it to college and get your lecturer to teach you about cars

Tried today, not allowed to bring it for at least a fortnight.....

Also, pd engines and dmfs aren't even part of the sylabus....

[Poodle]

Quite a few cars i know do this and they all belong to old/older women - ie the kind of people who are daft enough to boot it from low rpm on a regular basis and expect the engine to be fine. No idea what the solution is, but at least you know the source of the problem now.

[cully]

Quite a few cars i know do this and they all belong to old/older women - ie the kind of people who are daft enough to boot it from low rpm on a regular basis and expect the engine to be fine. No idea what the solution is, but at least you know the source of the problem now.

that would be Tom being an old women !! ??

[mark_airey]

Quite a few cars i know do this and they all belong to old/older women - ie the kind of people who are daft enough to boot it from low rpm on a regular basis and expect the engine to be fine. No idea what the solution is, but at least you know the source of the problem now.

Its very true ^^

As much as I really don't care my dad had a GTTDi 130 golf and that did it if you were in the wrong gear, like say 6th at no revs :roll:

You will find that if you were to put the car into the correct gear then you will have no problems at all

[Dan!]

Mark, I dont think its normal judder from low revs/full throttle. I know I can cruise at 1000rpm in 5th doing 30mph, and its fine with light throttle, but mash your foot and the engines a bit juddery, but Tom reckons his feels like somebody is kicking you in the back/whole car shaking, which must be something else imo...

[mark_airey]

Mark, I dont think its normal judder from low revs/full throttle. I know I can cruise at 1000rpm in 5th doing 30mph, and its fine with light throttle, but mash your foot and the engines a bit juddery, but Tom reckons his feels like somebody is kicking you in the back/whole car shaking, which must be something else imo...

Yeah but then think what yours is like in 5th and change up again, 6th is stupidly long on these boxes IIRC, I know my dads was fecking horrendous in the wrong gear as my mother can't drive for shit

[Ruan]

DMF more than likely, it's the lack of damping as all the rubber bushing will have given up and is now able to rattle back and forth at low RPMs as each cylinder fires, jumping the flywheel round more, giving that thumping sensation.

Another reason they're whack.

[Mr Whippy]

Not saying this is it, but since you are at a college and it's an engineering issue, it's worth considering.

Drive trains have oscillatory frequencies, and it may well be that in that gear with that much force being applied the system is oscillating badly.

DMF is there to protect from really bad oscillations, and other engine mapping routines, since these engines generate a lot of torque and gearbox loads at low (gearbox) rpm where their natural frequencies occur.

Is the car tuned?

Is the DMF damaged, and so making some weird oscillations happen over that rev range?

That is just me wondering, no idea if that is it or not, or if that is even possible



It might be really obvious from how it's driving. Is it actually low on power (which it would be if you had slipping clutch, injectors not firing or bad injections happening, etc), or does it accelerate as you would expect, just with lots of wobbling at the same time?

Dave

[Toms306]

Mark, I dont think its normal judder from low revs/full throttle. I know I can cruise at 1000rpm in 5th doing 30mph, and its fine with light throttle, but mash your foot and the engines a bit juddery, but Tom reckons his feels like somebody is kicking you in the back/whole car shaking, which must be something else imo...

This!, Mark don't forget I have two atm lol, one jdoes it, the other doesn't.....its not a case of changing down.....afterall, at 50mph in top gear you should be able to get to 70 without feeling like there's an earthquake!

[Toms306]

DMF more than likely, it's the lack of damping as all the rubber bushing will have given up and is now able to rattle back and forth at low RPMs as each cylinder fires, jumping the flywheel round more, giving that thumping sensation.

Another reason they're whack.

See I thought this too, but thought it'd rattle at idle or something but it doesn't, but there is a loud noisy thump from the gearbox area.......but that's there in both cars so not sure if its just normal :/

[Toms306]

Not saying this is it, but since you are at a college and it's an engineering issue, it's worth considering.

Drive trains have oscillatory frequencies, and it may well be that in that gear with that much force being applied the system is oscillating badly.

DMF is there to protect from really bad oscillations, and other engine mapping routines, since these engines generate a lot of torque and gearbox loads at low (gearbox) rpm where their natural frequencies occur.

Is the car tuned?

Is the DMF damaged, and so making some weird oscillations happen over that rev range?

That is just me wondering, no idea if that is it or not, or if that is even possible



It might be really obvious from how it's driving. Is it actually low on power (which it would be if you had slipping clutch, injectors not firing or bad injections happening, etc), or does it accelerate as you would expect, just with lots of wobbling at the same time?

Dave

It isn't tuned yet.....and I don't know how to check the dmf without removing the box :think:

Will probably be going for an upgraded smf after the map.

Also its certainly not down on power, its quicker than the silver one!

[silverzx]

Bit off topic but why do you have two of exactly the same car? Ones a uni project so may be of the road for periods of time where you still need a daily?

If thats the case why not sell one and get a little 106 1.5na and pump the extra cash into sorting the project out?

[Toms306]

Bit off topic but why do you have two of exactly the same car? Ones a uni project so may be of the road for periods of time where you still need a daily?

If thats the case why not sell one and get a little 106 1.5na and pump the extra cash into sorting the project out?

The blue one is the one that ideally I can keep for a while and will also be used for college project. The silver one I'm just using for another week while 'some stuff ' is happening to the blue one lol. Then it will be sold. I wanted to get a nad but can't insure both unfortunately.

[procta]

i would start with the basic, like fuel filter change and not booting it from 40mph in 6th gear.
see if that helps the car, also check the engine mounts too. also
tom my dad said try pulling a way in second gear, if the car wont then the clutch is failing. also driving up a hill in second gear too is another one.

[Toms306]

Also, lol at the price of the dmf from vw dealer! Asked them on another where I get discount.....

hello the price for the clutch and flywheel

non member member price
clutch kit £138-97 £74-40
flywheel £583-09 £454-80

prices inc vat but clutch kit has a £24 surcharge which would be refunded when the old item is returned

thanks

_________________ Robinsons Volkswagen Norwich 01603 612111

The clutch price seems ok though lol! Not much more than a TU clutch kit!

Anyone reckon I could change a clutch myself at home? Have done it in workshop but jot sure whether it'd be possible at home or in my nans garage?

[Toms306]

i would start with the basic, like fuel filter change and not booting it from 40mph in 6th gear.
see if that helps the car, also check the engine mounts too. also
tom my dad said try pulling a way in second gear, if the car wont then the clutch is failing. also driving up a hill in second gear too is another one.

I can pull away uphill in third mate! Accidently done that the other day.
Also, it will be getting a service.....when I next get paid in about a weeks time.

[procta]

Also, lol at the price of the dmf from vw dealer! Asked them on another where I get discount.....

hello the price for the clutch and flywheel

non member member price
clutch kit £138-97 £74-40
flywheel £583-09 £454-80

prices inc vat but clutch kit has a £24 surcharge which would be refunded when the old item is returned

thanks

_________________ Robinsons Volkswagen Norwich 01603 612111

The clutch price seems ok though lol! Not much more than a TU clutch kit!

Anyone reckon I could change a clutch myself at home? Have done it in workshop but jot sure whether it'd be possible at home or in my nans garage?

tom if me and my dad can do an engine convertion on the front drive way, you can do a clutch, just plan well a head pal and dont expect it to do be done quickly. take your time on removing stuff like you learned etc and take lots of snaps. also you will need to top the gearbox oil up too.

[procta]

I can pull away uphill in third mate! Accidently done that the other day.
Also, it will be getting a service.....when I next get paid in about a weeks time.

well thats the clutch been f*cked out of the window . mite just need a good service then.

[daddyfixit]

my galaxy is a pd motor also tom, if i drop it into 6th below about 60mph it rattles its bollocks off !! you are in too high a gear at too low a speed and thats the problem
its not the maf,pump,clutch,dmf at all mate..............its because you are in the wrong gear.

6th is an overdrive gear for cruising, not for plodding around.

if the dmf is fked on a pd engine, it rattles as you start the car and if pressing the clutch up and down as its idling, you may hear it singing at you !!! mines got 151k on it and is still fine on its original clutch/dmf.

also pd engines,hdi diesels are in imi based qualifications @ level 2, dmf's are covered in imi level 2 transmission................................??????????

[Dan!]

I dont think that the problem daddyfixit - Toms identical engine'd golf and my bora dont do it!

[Chris]

Replace the dmf with a solid one if you can, did it on my 307 when the dmf failed on that.

[Jonny81191]

Kill it with fire. That'll fix it!

[Toms306]

my galaxy is a pd motor also tom, if i drop it into 6th below about 60mph it rattles its bollocks off !! you are in too high a gear at too low a speed and thats the problem
its not the maf,pump,clutch,dmf at all mate..............its because you are in the wrong gear.

6th is an overdrive gear for cruising, not for plodding around.

if the dmf is fked on a pd engine, it rattles as you start the car and if pressing the clutch up and down as its idling, you may hear it singing at you !!! mines got 151k on it and is still fine on its original clutch/dmf.

also pd engines,hdi diesels are in imi based qualifications @ level 2, dmf's are covered in imi level 2 transmission................................??????????

As said....I can go from 35 to 105 in the silver one (albeit slowly!) in 6th, without all that, your galaxy must be f*cked too then. This one also seems to labour earlier in other gears, doesn't like 30 in 5th for example but the other one has no problem with it.

Also not sure if its linked but I get worse mpg on this one (averaging only 54mpg over the last tank).

Basically, if the dmf needs changing it might as well be uprated as I was planning anyway, and do the clutch at the same time...BUT I want to be sure its not the box that needs changing before I pay for the clutch and stuff as if it needs w box as well I might think about selling it and buying a f*cling 6 at this rate as it'd be cheaper! :roll:

One last thing, there seems to be a whining noise on over run or cruising down engine braking, not sure if this is engine or gearbix noise tho! As the silver one seemed noisy on the thin longlife oil and was better with pd oil.

Oh and I'm doing btec not imi btw.......we cover useful things that aren't even made anymore like Bosch ve instead of pd engines.....which I'm sure you know are different to CR hdis anyway.

[Toms306]

Right, have been driving the silver one again (and giving it plenty of stick....42mpg yesterday! ) and I can easily and smoothly go from 35 in 6th up to 115+ lol Private road obviously.

The whining noise is present in both so I assume thats just normal, the difference is the engine noise (knocking/rattling/clattering) is MUCH louder in the silver one so I can barely hear the whine over the engine lol.

HOWEVER the gearbox area 'thump' at idle is nowhere near as loud on the silver one so I think you guys are probably right about the DMF!

So now the question is......standard or uprated.....or even a silent SMF.... :think: