Sudden non start hdi

[af1]

Hi, hoping I can pick your brains

I have a 306 hdi with about 148k on the clock

The other day it started fine I drove it about 200yards and turned it off.. It wouldn't start again.

Ended up getting the rac out.
Basically he squirted some easy start into the inlet manifold and it started up, idled lovely for about 15 mins and I was on my way. For about a mile it ran lovely

However it then cut out and wouldn't start.

Once recovered the next day I did the same with some easy start and then the same thing after about a mile.

I can hear the tank pump priming when I turn the key however I note it was noisy as I drove (I put this down to having the carpet cover open as I drove)

I think by the fact that it runs and starts that I can rule out electrical fault or immobiliser

Also when it does cut out, there is no way of just bumping it back to life.

I do now have a check engine light which is more then I had before.

Is my likely culprit the low pressure pump or the high, it appears to be a fuel starvation issue here.

Anyone able to offer any fault finding tips. I do have peugeot planet but I fear it will simply say "fuel circuit error" which I pretty much know already

Anyone here got any pearls of wisdom?

[Poodle]

I think by the fact that it runs and starts that I can rule out electrical fault or immobiliser

An electrical fault is if anything more likely to be intermittent than a mechanical fault, it's half the reason they can be so hard to trace.

The lift pumps are generally quite noisy when you pull the seat and sound insulation off the top, doesn't mean it's knackered.

I'd suggest getting peugeot planet on it and see what it says, no point in sitting there guessing if you've got the means to interrogate the ecu. Remember reading the codes is only the most basic function of pp2000 when it comes to diagnostics.

[Paul_13]

replace the fpr, I find a faulty part will stop it starting. Mines currently doing the same

[Toms306]

If its an electrical fault, PP will be much more accurate than 'fuel system fault'...that's generic OBD crap.

[Eeyore]

When was the fuel filter last replaced? Was it a sudden stop or a gradual stop?

[af1]

It was sudden.

I'm just installing diagbox now on an old xp laptop

[af1]

How frustrating
I finally got it all connected and the crappy old laptops battery died grrr

[af1]

So I read the ecu

The faults I have are

Engine ECU
Intermittent fault injector circuit 1 open circuit, battery too low, harness too resistant.

Engine ECU
Intermittent fault injector circuit 2 open circuit, battery too low, harness too resistant.

Engine ECU
Intermittent fault. Clutch switch signal. Consistency with vehicle speed

Engine ECU
intermittent fault. Air flow meter signal. Open circuit or short circuit to earth. Flow too low

Engine ECU
Permanent fault. Injector circuit 3 ou 4. Open circuit to short circuit to earth. Flow too low

Engine ECU
Permanent fault. Injector circuit 3 ou 4. Open circuit battery too low harness too resistant

Engine ECU
Intermittent fault. Fuel high pressure monitoring. Lack of pressure (leak)


I'm guessing the battery too low was stored when I kept trying to crank it over.

I'm guessing the fpr could be at fault?

I cleared the codes and tried cranking it again, in the hope that it would simply show me the one fault however the ecu thinks that the car is excellent!

I guess the only way to fault find is to start it up with some 'start ya bastard' again and hope it throws up whatever codes

I performed the actuator test on heating circuit, 3rd piston high pressure pump and diesel pressure regulator and all of them clicked as they should

Alan

[Poodle]

Those injector codes imply there's something wrong with the wiring harness for the injectors, personally i'd start looking there. Unless the rac guy tried unplugging injectors as part of his diagnosis..? (Don't do this, it can fry the ecu.)

Do I understand correctly that when you tried to start it again it wouldn't start, but didn't throw up any faults either? If you want to check fuel pressure on start up go into the live data bit and watch the fpr duty cycle and rail pressure. There should be about 280 bar at cranking, if you have that then fuel pressure is not your problem, with regards to starting at least.

[af1]

Do I understand correctly that when you tried to start it again it wouldn't start, but didn't throw up any faults either?

This is absolutely correct.

it refuses to start on without some kind of fuel in the inlet (in my case a very old tin of easy start)

[af1]

Right had a little play with it

The fpr was only reading 76 on cranking.
Again would start with easy start

I took the fpr off and just dunked it in white spirit for 20 mins (bloody GMT, was worried about it getting dark as I worked on it)

Put it back on (admittedly with only one bolt as I dropped one in true formula one race mechanic style, never to be seen again)

It started first time with no issues.. I tentatively took it for a spin and it drove for a while and then did the usual sudden stop.

Engine light back on with the same fuel high pressure monitoring system fault. (Leak)

I know for certain there wasn't a visible leak(at least the first time)

I can safely say that the fpr is at fault, however is it logical that the fuel filter could be filthy causing debris to enter the high pressure pump and causing it to shut off? As a precaution I will be replacing the fuel filter anyway..

Now, where's the best place to get a new fpr and please tell me they come with bolts lol

[Poodle]

Ok, firstly the fpr and frps are different things. You're reading fuel pressure in the high pressure rail with the FRPS (Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor) and regulating the high pressure pump output with the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator).

It does seem as if the fpr could be causing the problem, try blasting it out with a bit of wd40 or something (remove the o-rings first if using something like carb cleaner), that's a much better way of cleaning them. Worth having a look in the bowl of the fuel filter housing for any muck, water or swarf, just for an idea of what's come through/from the lift pump, in case that's causing problems.

Tbh with the high-pressure system at that age it could be the pump or injectors, certainly worth doing a bit more research before you spend a lot of money on it imo.

[af1]

I did leave the fpr in a bowl of white spirit and then blew it through at about 100psi and the car started up first time without any easy start, but again, just down the road it died on me again.

From the research I have done it all seems to be consistent with an fpr fault. I have bought one now so can only give it a go. Of note one of the o rings was perished and cracked

[Poodle]

Ah fair, didn't know you'd blown it out, that's the important bit really. The dead o-ring won't have helped, something like that can be enough to upset the more delicate systems on its own.

Oh it's certainly consistent with fpr symptoms, I won't argue that. The problem is i've seen everything from worn wiring to dead injectors cause almost identical symptoms, and considering the cost of hp system parts try to do as much diagnosis as possible before recommending spending anything. A quick way to check the fpr is at fault is to pinch the return line when you're having problems starting her, see if the rail pressure goes up at all. Fingers crossed the new one solves it for you.

[af1]

Ah fair, didn't know you'd blown it out, that's the important bit really. The dead o-ring won't have helped, something like that can be enough to upset the more delicate systems on its own.

Oh it's certainly consistent with fpr symptoms, I won't argue that. The problem is i've seen everything from worn wiring to dead injectors cause almost identical symptoms, and considering the cost of hp system parts try to do as much diagnosis as possible before recommending spending anything. A quick way to check the fpr is at fault is to pinch the return line when you're having problems starting her, see if the rail pressure goes up at all. Fingers crossed the new one solves it for you.

It seems these engines are quite delicate.

As soon as I replaced the fpr the car started up fine and drove lovely.. However I did only put it in with one bolt as I dropped the other one, managed to get it on the block and then drop it again.. So it would never run right with a pressure leak on the side of the pump lol..

I have checked all fuses and when doing actuator tests on the fpr it clicks (maybe it's supposed to whirr?)

All symptoms seem to point to this part. I have a new genuine bosch one on order from Eastern Europe (£40 cheaper than uk parts) only problem is the delay so I'm going to use this opportunity to get the rallye running

[Poodle]

Not at all, the fuel systems are fussy, but no more so than any other common rail system.

Yeah two bolts are probably necessary lol, especially considering they're trying to hang on to 1300+ bar of pressure.

The fpr is essentially just a solenoid, clicking is exactly what it's meant to do on the actuator test.

Hopefully that'll solve it, although i've yet to see any positive feedback for the eastern European suppliers... If it doesn't solve it, don't immediately rule out the fpr as a possible cause, i'll leave it at that.

[af1]

Poodle, the Eastern European part is branded as genuine bosch, hence why i purchased it.. I saw cheaper ones in the uk but i didnt fancy a non genuine part....

Are you able to advise on the size of bolts so i can order a couple of spares? i looked on servicebox and the bolts are not listed. unfortunately i have not, as yet, trolled by way to 100 posts to put up an advert in the wanted section so if anyone wants to sell bolts from a breaker then

[Poodle]

I don't know the bolt sizes off the top of my head i'm afraid, sorry. Do you know how to work out what you need? I might have couple of spares in the garage, they'll be buried though so will have to wait until the weekend.

[af1]

Wow the part arrived from Poland and the car is starting up straight away. I replaced the torx bolts with normal hex bolts

Seems to be ok except due to access I can't tighten then them the last bit so it's slightly weepy


Nearly there

[madmadmax]

the fuel fulter unclips if you pull it up hard

[af1]

What I hadn't realised is that the new part didn't have the big o-ring included. I Was desperate to get it ready that I was rushing.

Top tip: don't rush

[af1]

So to surmise.

The part arrived, I fitted it, it worked but weeped diesel

I took it back off, the replacement part didn't include a new black o-ring.

Put one on, replaced hex bolts with Allen bolts & happy days.

[Poodle]

Glad to hear a new fpr sorted it.

[af1]

Haha so far so good!

[pro_steve]

Glad to hear the FPR cured it, this just goes to show that almost every problem on the HDI is caused by the FPR. Such an easy fix once people decide to blame the FPR. I've got a new one laying around so that's the first thing I try on a car with problems.

[af1]

Good idea!

I'm glad I had Peugeot planet mind! As soon as I saw I was only getting 79 psi at cranking I knew I had a problem for sure with the fpr