EP3 Civic Type R - why not?

[Grant]

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

My rallye got caned by a Civic Jordan the other night, especially embarrasing because i baited him out!

Some civics are genuinely fast. Niall it seems has had the fastest GTi-6 ever produced as his is quicker than focus ST's and Ep3 type R's! suprised he needed to supercharge it tbh.

Either that or yours is just a shit bag considering a few agree with me that the older focus ST is slower than a 6!

I used to embarrass 220's in my stripped 1.8.

You have to remember they weigh about 14 tonns

[RetroPug]

Why not?
Because it isn't made of old, recycled french biscuit tins in the 1990s and it is highly unlikely to kill me. That's why not.

[lewisdmz]

The whole torque thing is overrated - they don't seriously lack at all, it's still a 2.0.

They are very well built, seating position could be better (feels a bit high up IMO) and insurance can be a bit alarming too. The one thing they are is involving, I can't comment on how they handle at speed as that's not something you can really do on a test drive, but the VTEC kick is nice:

Consider also the Celica 190/TSport. Often overlooked but only 8bhp down on the Civic and the seating position is a million times better. It's low-slung being a proper coupe rather than a hatchback and as a result it's aesthetically in another league - IMO of course. They're not as common as a Civic Type R but offer a very similar driving experience. I got 36ish MPG from mine and thought that was good going. No cambelt to worry about (runs on chain) and very cheap to service too. About 1 in 8 Celicas have the 190 engine (according to registered cars figures) where most have the 140bhp engine, so they're uncommon even as far as Celicas go....

Sorry yes I did look into this, tbh I'm not overly keen on the looks, they're a bit too 'flashy sports car' for me. I don't doubt they are an excellent drive though.

Also a few people commented on the price of parts, I was under the impression they were relatively cheap (compared to VAG hot hatches etc of a similar type).

[7057sam]

Yeah jdm parts are crazy prices,and say if the head or bottom head went if you had a 6 thats a £250 engine and you on your way try finding a second hand k20 for under 1k.

[Curt]

Few things: That would be the block . JDM parts aren't the same as normal parts, they're specifically made for Japan and people do pay over the odds for the stuff, but it doesn't just mean Japanese. Lastly, the likelihood of having to replace one would probably be significantly lower. The problems with XU10s arise with neglect and late belt changes, hence they become a rather large consumable.

[Matt-Rallye]

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

My rallye got caned by a Civic Jordan the other night, especially embarrasing because i baited him out!

Some civics are genuinely fast. Niall it seems has had the fastest GTi-6 ever produced as his is quicker than focus ST's and Ep3 type R's! suprised he needed to supercharge it tbh.

civic jordan is 157bhp and 1260kg....

think you need to drive your rallye a bit better!!!

you have less weight, more bhp and more torque!

My Rallye performs ok and i know how to drive it, also with a printout for 169.9 im pretty sure my rallye is spot on.

Unlike most on here i have owned cars thats ARENT a 306, and i respect them.

As much as i love my 306 im not going to pretend its something its not.

Tbh dude, I'd just go and try one, look at a few before deciding on one, drive them.

Some people love cars that others hate.

I'd love an Ek9 type r but that's not really helpful or relevant haha

My rallye got caned by a Civic Jordan the other night, especially embarrasing because i baited him out!

Some civics are genuinely fast. Niall it seems has had the fastest GTi-6 ever produced as his is quicker than focus ST's and Ep3 type R's! suprised he needed to supercharge it tbh.

Either that or yours is just a shit bag considering a few agree with me that the older focus ST is slower than a 6!

Considering your engine building skills i wouldnt be so quick to label my 170k rallye a shit bag.

Older focus ST's (N/A 2.0 16v ST170) is slow as f*ck and worthless.

Anything with the volvo 2.5 T lump is an entirely different weapon. I have driven them and know for a fact! theyre over 50bhp up on a stock '6 standard! If someone has enough balls to drive one properly they are a fast car and will embaress a 306.

Im speaking from experience of both cars, something most here arent.

[Niall]

Ah i see, runs out of genuine arguments so tries to use insults The other three engines I've built run spot on thanks.
Considering that several others have agreed with me now, there is several scenarios here:

Yours arguing for the sake of arguing because you don't like being wrong
Your car is f*cked and is slower than the average crop of 6s/rallyes
You can't drive it properly.
You are much like dum dum in the fact you genuinely believe that displacement automatically means more power.

Oh and just FYI, I've owned a fair few cars that aren't 306s and driven a hell of a lot more so before you say it, i don't have the blinkers on. There is a lot out there quicker than a 6 but theres also a lot out there slower.

[Matt-Rallye]

Ah i see, runs out of genuine arguments so tries to use insults The other three engines I've built run spot on thanks.
Considering that several others have agreed with me now, there is several scenarios here:

Yours arguing for the sake of arguing because you don't like being wrong
Your car is f*cked and is slower than the average crop of 6s/rallyes
You can't drive it properly.
You are much like dum dum in the fact you genuinely believe that displacement automatically means more power.

Oh and just FYI, I've owned a fair few cars that aren't 306s and driven a hell of a lot more so before you say it, i don't have the blinkers on. There is a lot out there quicker than a 6 but theres also a lot out there slower.

Not arguing for the sake of arguing, im sticking by my point because i believe its valid.

My car is most certainly not f*cked, its abit rough around the edges but mainly cosmetic.
I guess you'll have to take me at my word that i can drive it properly. I like to think i can anyway.
Oh i know all too well that displacement and power are 2 very different things, but if you start with more, you usually have the potential for more.

Power to weight plays a big part of it admittedly but has anyone on here actually looked at the factual power and weight figures for both cars? also look at the amount of sheer torque the ST creates.

Please feel free to call my bluff with an informed and factual answer if you can find one that agrees with your side of the debate.

---

Focus ST2 dry kerb weight: 1437kg - 222bhp (3 door variant)

306 Rallye dry kerb weight: 1200kg - 167bhp

Anyone care to do the maths?

[lolsteve]

http://www.easycalculation.com/physics/f...-ratio.php
St = 0.0700748129
Rallye = 0.0631249382
zr 160 = 0.0633840866

apparently I beat a rallye but we all know that's a load of bull

Although wouldn't stuff like gearing make more an impact when the ratios are so close?

[Matt-Rallye]

http://www.easycalculation.com/physics/f...-ratio.php
St = 0.0700748129
Rallye = 0.0631249382
zr 160 = 0.0633840866

apparently I beat a rallye

Although wouldn't stuff like gearing make more an impact when the ratios are so close?

f*ck yeah

But as we all know, a rallye is quicker than a ZR 160 (no offence steve, my friend has one)

So i think that shows exactly how accurate power to weight ratio is in real life, yes its a factor but its not gospel.

[Niall]

To be honest, i don't take power figures 100% seriously. Its no good having, for example 30bhp more than a 6 but its only available at 7500rpm where for example, a 6 may make full power between 4000-5000rpm.

And yes, i know them figures aren't correct, just for arguments sake. As you say, a lot of us know a 6 is a fair bit quicker than a ZR although the only one I've been in is Steves and i think thats f*cked

[lolsteve]

Non taken, it's certainly not faster than a rallye in its current state but I do hope to beat a standard 6 this summer
Likewise don't you suppose a 6 with some work could outdo a standard st? Or is that not what is being discussed here?

Also people make mistakes, so bashing someones handy work isn't very sportmanshippy or whatever

[Niall]

Non taken, it's certainly not faster than a rallye in its current state but I do hope to beat a standard 6 this summer
Likewise don't you suppose a 6 with some work could outdo a standard st? Or is that not what is being discussed here?

a 6 with some work could beat most things on the road. Just depends on how deep your pockets are!

[lolsteve]

Skinny jeans being worn by a student, so not very deep. But my janspeed 4-2-1 manifold + decat and possibly some mapping might help me out
Will also be removing some weight for track time this year rather than last time going out with 6x9's, amp, spare wheel and rear seats
But yea the fastest standard car I can think that I've been in was a 6'

[Matt-Rallye]

Non taken, it's certainly not faster than a rallye in its current state but I do hope to beat a standard 6 this summer
Likewise don't you suppose a 6 with some work could outdo a standard st? Or is that not what is being discussed here?

Also people make mistakes, so bashing someones handy work isn't very sportmanshippy or whatever

He called my Rallye a shit bag, gotta defend my fair ladies honour

My point is the claimed standard for standard thrashing a 306 gti6 would bestow upon a focus st is ridiculous.

Look at the amount of torque (and extra weight / bigger wheels and tyres) the focus has from pretty much idle! 306 has a lovely linear torque and power curve as standard despite being 16v twincam and i like that. but the focus has bags of torque and when it comes on boost its guaranteed to be gone.

---

Anyways enough of the focus st Vs gti6 argument,

Civic EP3 type R... Go test drive one and report back here as i want to know how a fellow owner rates it

[Niall]

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I know i have stayed ahead of one before up to some rather high speeds. I also know of another ex member here who did the same up to some seriously illegal speeds and several have agreed with me in this thread. Maybe i was just lucky or secretly the previous owner put a 2.2 in my car before i bought it

[Curt]

This is all rather silly.

1. There's far too many variables.
2. Racing other cars on the road is stupid.
3. Do these people actually know they're in a race?
4. Most peoples abilities have more of an impact than the cars.
5. This thread is about the EP3 Civic.
6. Who cares?

[Piggy]

I care.

306's are epic.

Civics are chavvy and not epic.

/thread

[Niall]

I care.

306's are epic.

Civics are chavvy and not epic.

/thread

Careful joking about. It will be moderated before you know it.

Curts right though, this has gone a bit off topic.

[lolsteve]

True,
In honesty I wouldnt mind a civic, chavy or not when vtec kicks in yo it does make a beautiful sound imo

[Curt]

306's are epic.

Civics are chavvy and not epic.

I'm sorry, I'm here because I like 306s like everyone else but some comments are just laughable.

Everyone that is capable of taking the blinkers off, give their input. If not, don't bother.

[Piggy]

Ive owned plenty of other stuff...inc jap stuff, and all the jap car meets and shows, the civics were all so chavvy, im not speaking about owners.

Integras typeRs on the other hand are a car on my most wanted list.

Its my opinion Curt, you dont have to agree.

[C.A.R.]

Focus ST vs. 306 GTi6

EP3 vs. 306 GTi6

Celica TS vs. 306 GTi6

However...

Focus ST170 vs. 306 GTi6

Disclaimer:
These times are obviously flawed because nobody on that website lives for the 306 and hasn't driven one so how would they know anyway...

[Curt]

Its my opinion Curt, you dont have to agree.

I'm not saying that anyone has to agree, I'm just saying stop looking at the 306 like a scaled down version of god and look at the big picture.

You may well have owned other cars, but it certainly doesn't read that way as with most people on here.

Also, when you stereotype a car, things go down hill. Just drive what you want to drive regardless. I certainly wouldn't have the cars I do if that were the case.

[Piggy]

Does seem a bit unfair that most of these threads compare a 306 gti which is really now a 15yr+ old car, with updates all be it to looks n gadgets, to much more modern cars, which demand a higher price tag.

Think it shows how good the 306 is really

[silverzx]

200SX for the win!

As I said, EP4 handles well so an EP3 should be even better!

I have to disagree about fuel though. People I know who have owned them seem to get nearer 30mpg if driven fairly sensibly.