Power steering

[jammapic]

Hi all,

I'm looking to create a bit more space under the bonnet of the track car, partially for the reason that I want to fit a big sausage filter on my throttle bodies rather than either running them open or having the tiny RamAir filters on.

Was looking to remove the power steering pump, pipework, cooler etc completely and then fitting a simple 5PK690 ELAST type belt - as I have no air con etc.

Would people normally go down this route, or would you look to retain the PAS by relocating the pump etc?

Thanks for your help,

JP

[HDIkyle]

Move it to the bottom like phase 1's

[jammapic]

Ah, I didn't know PH1's were at the bottom. I know you can buy a bracket for a few quid to relocate - but I wondered whether it's just "better" to completely remove...

JP

[Toms306]

Or swap to an electric pump, can put it where you like then.

[Niall]

Or swap to an electric pump, can put it where you like then.

This. I've done a guide on how to do it and I'm doing it on my new engine.

[jammapic]

Don't they give crap feel though?

[Just Sean]

You could turn it on so you only have EPAS when you need it

[Niall]

Don't they give crap feel though?

Nope identical to the belt driven one. I think your getting it confused with EPAS setups on newer cars whereby the column is actually driven by an electric motor. With the EPAS pump from a 106, its still a fully hydraulic setup. Just uses a electric motor to turn the pump instead of the aux belt.

[samass]

I'd say sack it off entirely, specially as it's the track car, ya know, West saving and all that. That and after driving jonnys estate where he's removed the pas, it's actually really nice to drive, really good feel to it

[kentiiboii]

Don't they give crap feel though?

Nope identical to the belt driven one. I think your getting it confused with EPAS setups on newer cars whereby the column is actually driven by an electric motor. With the EPAS pump from a 106, its still a fully hydraulic setup. Just uses a electric motor to turn the pump instead of the aux belt.

So what benefits do you get from the EPAS pump from 106?

[Toms306]

Don't they give crap feel though?

Nope identical to the belt driven one. I think your getting it confused with EPAS setups on newer cars whereby the column is actually driven by an electric motor. With the EPAS pump from a 106, its still a fully hydraulic setup. Just uses a electric motor to turn the pump instead of the aux belt.

So what benefits do you get from the EPAS pump from 106?

Two things really. It's not belt driven, so it saves using engine power to run the pump probably gives you one extra bhp lol. But the main thing is that because it's electric you can position it anywhere rather than having to be on the engine next to the belt, giving more room for chargers etc.

You could also switch it off if you prefer no assistance under certain circumstances, then switch it on for slow speed manoeuvres.

[Rippthrough]

A PAS rack without the PAS on will always still have the slack around the dead ahead anyway unless you modify the shuttle valve.

[Jonny81191]

Sack it off altogether, it's well worth it IMO

[jammapic]

Is there a 306 rack with no PAS? Might be worth doing.

Jonny, not too heavy when maneuvering etc? Or ok?

JP

[Niall]

Don't they give crap feel though?

Nope identical to the belt driven one. I think your getting it confused with EPAS setups on newer cars whereby the column is actually driven by an electric motor. With the EPAS pump from a 106, its still a fully hydraulic setup. Just uses a electric motor to turn the pump instead of the aux belt.

So what benefits do you get from the EPAS pump from 106?

Two things really. It's not belt driven, so it saves using engine power to run the pump probably gives you one extra bhp lol. But the main thing is that because it's electric you can position it anywhere rather than having to be on the engine next to the belt, giving more room for chargers etc.

You could also switch it off if you prefer no assistance under certain circumstances, then switch it on for slow speed manoeuvres.

Err tom you wont gain any power. Your just moving the load from the aux belt system to the alternator.

[Toms306]

So what benefits do you get from the EPAS pump from 106?

Two things really. It's not belt driven, so it saves using engine power to run the pump probably gives you one extra bhp lol. But the main thing is that because it's electric you can position it anywhere rather than having to be on the engine next to the belt, giving more room for chargers etc.

You could also switch it off if you prefer no assistance under certain circumstances, then switch it on for slow speed manoeuvres.

Err tom you wont gain any power. Your just moving the load from the aux belt system to the alternator.

That's true but it's not equivalent. Takes less engine power to run the motor via the alternator, than it does a manual pump via an aux belt. Its less than half iirc. Obviously it won't give any noticeable power increase though.

---

Is there a 306 rack with no PAS? Might be worth doing.

Jonny, not too heavy when maneuvering etc? Or ok?

JP

Go for a drive with the aux belt off and see what it's like.... Especially if you have to do tight parallel parking lol.

[jammapic]

I try not to drive it anywhere where I have to park lol.

I've bought an elastic aux belt now, so tbh I'll just take the pump etc off. If Jonny says it's ok then I'll sack it all off. Lots less weight if nothing else!

JP

[Jonny81191]

It's difficult to maneuver, that's fo' sure!

But you just learn to turn the wheels while moving and get bigger arms

[Ben]

I'd get rid of it and get a non-pas rack from an old xrd or similar. Apart from at low speeds it'll feel much better and save you a few kg's at the same time.

---

It's difficult to maneuver, that's fo' sure!

But you just learn to turn the wheels while moving and get bigger arms

Did you change the rack over to a non-pas one?

[darrenjlobb]

To be fair, if its a track car...deffo sack it off and run without the ram / pas rack....its always going to give you the best "drive"....

But from a road driving point of view / day to day etc, id personally go electric...thats what I did and havent looked back...few reasons:

A - pump can go ANYWHERE so easy to keep out the way,
B - Simplifies the aux belt, so more room, less isssues
C - When the pas pump shits itself it dosnt take out your aux belt
D - (The most important blatently) you still have pas when on tow, ftfw


But for this car, sack it off imo...if you dont need it, sack it off in a track car

[Niall]

D - (The most important blatently) you still have pas when on tow, ftfw

Regular occurrence for you Darren?

[Jonny81191]

I'd get rid of it and get a non-pas rack from an old xrd or similar. Apart from at low speeds it'll feel much better and save you a few kg's at the same time.

---

It's difficult to maneuver, that's fo' sure!

But you just learn to turn the wheels while moving and get bigger arms

Did you change the rack over to a non-pas one?

Nope, I'm doing a guide on the conversion though.

[Rippthrough]

The non-pas rack is way too slow, I hated mine, which is why it now has the silly-fast rack on. Which is great, but anyone used to PAS gets a big shock

[darrenjlobb]

The non-pas rack is way too slow, I hated mine, which is why it now has the silly-fast rack on. Which is great, but anyone used to PAS gets a big shock

Cant you just remove the ram off a pas rack?

[darrenjlobb]

D - (The most important blatently) you still have pas when on tow, ftfw

Regular occurrence for you Darren?

Heck yes!

[Rippthrough]

Cant you just remove the ram off a pas rack?

You can, and seal the pipe fittings off, but you end up with some slack in the steering from the PAS shuttle valve.

[darrenjlobb]

ah....certainly not an expert in the area heh...

[Paul_13]

I've got a de-PAS xsara rack on the 205 dt and I have a xsara rack with PAS on the gti and i've got to say I prefer it PAS.
I find I can keep much more speed around corners as i'm not putting soo much effort into steering.

[jammapic]

Ripp, would you say it's better to run with a non pas rack, or just stay with what I've got and take the pas off it? The last thing I want is "play" in the middle....

[Rippthrough]

You can strip the PAS and shim or weld the input shaft to the shuttle, takes the play out.
I need to do one shortly so I'll make a guide.