Its only a bit of snow

[Piggy]

People need to learn to drive to the conditions at the time and not just the speed limit imo.

this is true...but if you have winter tyres and get some experience out there you will find that there isnt a huge difference between driving in summer and driving in snow with winter tyres...

sweden rally on snow and ice is one of the fastest rallies on the circuit, says a lot

[anto]

Just LOL.

We live in Britain, winter tyres really aren't necessary. They have a place - for a fraction of the year. The outlay simply isn't worth the advantage you will gain!

I've tackled snow-covered roads on some Kumho's this winter that are near the limit. Driving in snow just requires common sense, not a car shod in grippy winter tyres.

It makes me laugh, there are some people mental enough to consider getting an Audi with Quattro or a 4x4 to 'get them through the winter'.

F*ck sake anyone would think we lived in Siberia.

You might change your mind about this ^^^^ if you need to get stopped quickly on cold/ icy/ snowy roads. Getting started, getting up hills is fine, getting stopped when you really need to is when the shit hits the fan on normal tyres.

[C.A.R.]

You might change your mind about this ^^^^ if you need to get stopped quickly on cold/ icy/ snowy roads. Getting started, getting up hills is fine, getting stopped when you really need to is when the shit hits the fan on normal tyres.

I had to yesterday, black ice, and a lot of it.

But because I was driving to the conditions (slush on the road, you could see ice in the reflection off the surface) I wasn't going fast enough for it to be a problem. Braked well in advance, the ABS kicked in and I slid for maybe 5 meters.

The key is driving to the conditions, snow tyres will give you more control in poor weather but they won't save your life if you drive at the speedlimit on ice, in fact they probably give you a false sense of security...

[Dum-Dum]

Just LOL.

We live in Britain, winter tyres really aren't necessary. They have a place - for a fraction of the year. The outlay simply isn't worth the advantage you will gain!

I've tackled snow-covered roads on some Kumho's this winter that are near the limit. Driving in snow just requires common sense, not a car shod in grippy winter tyres.

It makes me laugh, there are some people mental enough to consider getting an Audi with Quattro or a 4x4 to 'get them through the winter'.

F*ck sake anyone would think we lived in Siberia.

Chris as per usual your missing the point entirely, yes it is possible to drive on snow and ice with normal tyres but its also possible to drive while texting and not wearing a seat belt.

The point is that winter tyres are much safer, the improvements in cornering and braking on snow are massive. Having had winter tyres now I wont ever do another winter on standard tyres If I can afford winter ones.

I almost got a 4x4 for winter to get me through. Would have been quiet happy to spend 300quid on a old fiat panda 4x4 but someone else had the same idea sadly.

Allways wanted another panda. Had one a fiew years ago when it snowed and it woz so much fun and if you did get it stuck in some deep snow you just picked it up n moved it lmao. That only had crappy tires on it and i think the back ones were only just legal.

OMG so im not the only one who wants an old panda 4x4. I really love those little things. Apparently its really easy to convert to a 1.3 punto engine for a little extra power.

[C.A.R.]

So driving a car on snow whilst shod in all-weather tyres and not winter tyres specific to the weather is tantamount to driving without due care and attention?

Is that really what you're saying, PC Dum?

[bingham123456]

OMG so im not the only one who wants an old panda 4x4. I really love those little things. Apparently its really easy to convert to a 1.3 punto engine for a little extra power.
[/quote]

A guy on youtube has fitted a 1.9 diesel into one think its only 2wd tho.

But yeah would love another one but with a 3"lift 13" offroad tires and a outside roll cage and find a way of turbo/supercharging it. My next car might have to be one now lol

[Piggy]

I want a subaru justy 4x4...just for the fun and for extra fun lump a 2.0turbo in...a mate did it for a field car...was epic


FYI re:ABS
if you think it will help in snow and ice, try again.
ABS completely fails in such conditions hence why you find old swedish cars have a button to turn it off...coz you dont want it on snow and ice.
I just pull the fuse in a car with abs if I want to live on snow and ice

[Niall]

FYI re:ABS
if you think it will help in snow and ice, try again.
ABS completely fails in such conditions hence why you find old swedish cars have a button to turn it off...coz you dont want it on snow and ice.
I just pull the fuse in a car with abs if I want to live on snow and ice

For once i agree with this man. There are two situations where ABS actually extends the stopping distance over non-ABS. Ice/Snow and loose surfaces like gravel.

[Piggy]

I cant believe manufacturers dont give a winter button mode for abs...

I tried it in a brand new fiesta in a carpark

30mph...emergency stop, like a panicked driver may do...it juddered and buzzed for about 20yds and then the pedal went soft and hit the floor...and nothing.
I had to turn engine off and use a combo of non servo footbrake and handbrake!!!
total fail

[Dum-Dum]

So driving a car on snow whilst shod in all-weather tyres and not winter tyres specific to the weather is tantamount to driving without due care and attention?

Is that really what you're saying, PC Dum?

No what I'm saying is like every other idiot on the roads you wont do something to improve your own safety (and that of everyone else around) until it is made law that you have to.

Your one of these muppets that has been created by decades of the nanny state that assumes that as long as its not illegal it must be safe.

[anto]

You might change your mind about this ^^^^ if you need to get stopped quickly on cold/ icy/ snowy roads. Getting started, getting up hills is fine, getting stopped when you really need to is when the shit hits the fan on normal tyres.

I had to yesterday, black ice, and a lot of it.

But because I was driving to the conditions (slush on the road, you could see ice in the reflection off the surface) I wasn't going fast enough for it to be a problem. Braked well in advance, the ABS kicked in and I slid for maybe 5 meters.

The key is driving to the conditions, snow tyres will give you more control in poor weather but they won't save your life if you drive at the speedlimit on ice, in fact they probably give you a false sense of security...

If you were sliding at all, let alone 5m, then you werent driving to the conditions.

Would you drive in the wet on slicks if the govt allowed it?

[pugolliek]

On the continent many change the tyres twice a year and buy new winter/summer sets as a matter of course. Hence the availability of imported part-worn tyres, especially so within the last few years here.

That's not strictly true. Whilst we've had an influx of part-worn tyres from the continent, the primary reason is down to the fact that their legal tread limit is 3mm, not 1.6 as ours is. Their limit is much more strictly enforced too.

I stand corrected so!!

[Poodle]

But because I was driving to the conditions (slush on the road, you could see ice in the reflection off the surface) I wasn't going fast enough for it to be a problem. Braked well in advance, the ABS kicked in and I slid for maybe 5 meters.

The key is driving to the conditions, snow tyres will give you more control in poor weather but they won't save your life if you drive at the speedlimit on ice, in fact they probably give you a false sense of security...

Haha cheers CAR, beautifully supported my points about ignorance and laziness there, and in your other posts looking back, ideal!

Winter tyres are a far sounder investment than a 4x4 in my eyes, much better return for your money for one thing. As said before, there's a common misconception they are purely for snow and ice - this is nonsense spread by the know-it-all in your local pub. I really don't understand why people are more willing to listen to him than they are common sense and hard evidence.

Your one of these muppets that has been created by decades of the nanny state that assumes that as long as its not illegal it must be safe.

YES! I will just agree with this, i could expand on it, but won't (you'll be glad to hear ). Mainly because i need to go to work at some point today and don't want to get banned for boring people to death with my views on the "nanny-state" and politics in general.

[C.A.R.]

If you were sliding at all, let alone 5m, then you werent driving to the conditions.

Would you drive in the wet on slicks if the govt allowed it?

Not really, I still stopped well in advance, in a straight line, as anticipated.

Why would I drive in the wet on slicks? Your analogy makes no sense.

Fact is, all-weather tyres are 'sufficient' for people getting about all year round, with the exception of perhaps 3 or 5 days when it snows. Even then, I fail to see how winter tyres @ £200 are a 'sound investment', when they aren't guarranteed to stop you messing up or indeed someone else sliding into you anyway.

On the continent, where the road surface is white for months of the year and they have significant snowfall, it makes sense. Here, in Britain, it just doesn't.

But, it's probably a good idea to be in the tyre business right now, since there are a lot of impressionable people out there willing to splash cash on an unecessary set of tyres...

[Niall]

But there not unnecessary. You forget car that our winters are changing and they are getting colder, wetter and if the past 2 years are anything to go by, snowier.
Personally I think it's a good idea and there is no extra cost because if you are using two sets of tyres, you will get double the time frame out of them as you are doing less miles per year on a set so theoretically, it shouldn't cost you any extra at all. Just means you have a slight bit more reassurance in the winter months.
And if you slid to a stop, you weren't driving to the conditions or you just can't drive.

[Piggy]

how many months of the year are wet and average below 10degrees???......I will let all come to own conclusions...

but how many you came up with, thats how many months winter tyres would be worthwhile.

Again, you may even save money in long run...less likely to have an accident, less likely to lose money from missing work, less likely to damage your nice alloys and summer tyres with all the salt/grit/potholes!!!

[C.A.R.]

It makes sense in rural areas, but not in the most of the UK, where main roads are cleared of snow.

As for sliding to a stop, I still felt in complete control. I must've only been going 10mph!

Do you think that winter tyres would have made the blindest bit of difference on black ice?

[Niall]

Car, I practically live in central London and dring in the snow is a nightmare because roads are not cleared and salt can only do so much.
And sliding is not in control at all.

[Dum-Dum]

CAR your deluded, gritters only really work well on dry roads and only when theyer expecting light snow or frost.

On wet roads it just gets washed away and gritters will never lay enough salt down to protect from heavy snow, youd need a gritter going up and down a road all night to protect from it and then you have the problem that as the salt melts the snow the roads get wet and wash the salt away.


As piggy rightly points out winter tryes are for the whole of winter. They are better at clearing water when it rains, a more suitable compound for 10*C and below as well as being better on snow and ice.

Theres at least 3 months of the year when they are good to use on the road, probably stretching to 4, 5 or 6 some years.

[C.A.R.]

But none of us have a particularly lairy car which would necessitate winter tyres - this is the point I'm making. It's pointless on a 306.

If you can't drive a 306 in the snow on 195 tyres then it's not winter tyres you need, it's tuition and a dose of common sense.

Also, it was very snowy just 3 days ago. Now, the road surface is bone dry. Winter tyres have an accelerated wear rate as they have a much softer compound and a different material makeup. This means that on dry road surfaces they will wear out quickly - totally eliminating the theory that they're cost effective...

But carry on...

[Piggy]

CAR you are reading but not listening and thinking it through

So what if the road is dry...if its 10degrees or less winter tyres will still be beneficial

And your point regarding power is pointless...my wife uses snow tyres on her 106 1.5nad...but she flies everywhere in winter, passing all manner of 'all terrain' vehicles

50bhp or 500bhp you still need suitable rubber for the conditions.

[C.A.R.]

You're a very impressionable group of people who are just absorbing the information and scare-mongering being churned out that winter tyres are the holy grail and should be acknowledged nationwide, when this simply isn't true.

We don't run on summer tyres anyway, typically they are all-weather tyres. These are designed specifically to not aquaplane and still perform under 7°C - just not as-well as a softer compound 'winter' tyre will.

And what about in temperatures above 7°C? Winter tyres are actually a disadvantage in these situations, such as today, for instance. Bone dry road surface, 8°C.

Remember, winter tyres will only give you an advantage if it is wet and below 7°C - at any other time they're not as good as an all-weather tyre.

If you've bought winter tyres and you don't live out in the sticks you've either-
-got too much money
or
-you're a mug.

I can go on all day about this sh*t.

[Just Sean]

please do

[Dum-Dum]

CAR your still being blind to what your being told. A year ago Id of probably agreed with you but Id never had winter tyres then. Now Ive driven on them I want them EVERY winter.

They dont just work when its cold AND wet, its cold OR wet. Yes today its about 12*C and dry and so all weather tyres would be just as good and not wear as fast but most of the day the temps are still in single figure and its gonna get colder again at the start of next week so my 18s are staying in the garage.

Yes you can drive adequately on all weather tyres but youll actually be pretty close to the limit of grip most of the time as you, a careful and competent driver, sliding several meters the other day story tells us. On winter tyres I can accelerate harder, corner harder and brake harder. Does this mean I drive faster in adverse conditions, not really but it does mean that should the worst happen I am better able to take evasive action that will save me form being involved in a collision.

[Piggy]

amen to the Dum man

ironic eh

---

CAR...have you even ever driven a car with winter tyres in the snow?

have you been say to Sweden and tried ice driving with/without winter tyres?

have you had proffesional training and trained others in winter driving?

no? then dont make your opinion appear to be fact

[Poodle]

Ok CAR, so I take it you just run inferior tyres all year round, as i guess you must think good summer tyres are a waste of money as well? Ever heard the phrase jack of all trades, master of none? You can't have everything, therefore "all-weather" tyres will only ever be a compromise.

By your own argument, winter tyres are the better choice for 5 months of the year, if you don't believe me go and look at some local climate records. Between November and March every year; temps typically stay well below 10 and there is a 2:3 chance of rain. Even April and October are borderline.

My opinion of winter tyres is formed from 3 years of personal experience, not a repeat of others'. You know full well i'm not the type to go with the crowd; i first bought winter tyres as an experiment when they were generally still being poo-poo'd. Since then i've been reluctant to use anything but. I have occasionally had to use my all-weather tyres during winter and the difference is substantial, the winter tyres eliminate most of the greasy feeling on wet roads as well as stopping, turning and wearing better. Yes, they are far superior on snow and ice, but that is by no means the whole story.

Power doesn't come into the equation, it's irrelevant - it doesn't affect your braking distance; weight and grip do. I have had to take avoiding action recently when following the gf one day, we were both in 306s - she emergency stopped for a deer in the forest and i couldn't stop as quickly, even though the car I was driving had bigger and better brakes and is stripped out. Guess which car had the winter tyres on...
It wasn't particularly cold, or wet, yet still they were that much better... For me, that is evidence enough they are worth the money.

[Matt]

LOUD NOISES

[Just Sean]

I love lamp

[Matt]

I dont know if you know but uh, im pretty much a big deal

[Poodle]

Was enjoying that, where's the opposition gone?