16 Valve HDi?

[darrenjlobb]

I dont know a huge ammount about the management systems, but obviously bosch make all there own pumps / injectors as well as the ecu / management side of things...but do siemens do this also? Or do they use other people (IE bosch) for the hardware side of it?

[Chris]

Well on the siemens system the injectors are down as siemens brand, same goes for the delphini setup.
The pumps are branded too according to service box.

[darrenjlobb]

Hm, well in that case some of the 16v 2.0's were deffo bosch management then, including mine, as mine is all bosch gear....

Im pretty sure the pug ones with ally manifold and R HP pump are bosch, and the ford / volvo plastic mani / top HP pump are seimens in that case....so very easy to run in a 306 management wise....

[Toms306]

Umm...can we stop confusing stuff lol?? :?

I asked about the 2.0 16V......nothing about little 1.6's

[Toms306]

Also, no-one answered my question of how you know what's gonna fit??

[Chris]

Had another look, and I've worked it out.

There are 2 versions of the 2.0 16v.
There is the 136 BHP (DW10ATED4) version (in the 806, Expert, (406's too apparently, but not listed on SB), maybe others too, not looked yet) which is bosch managed.
And the 138 BHP (DW10BTED4) version, fitted to the 307, 308, 407, 607, 807 which is siemens/delphni managed


HDI 2.0 90 (DW10TD) Mainly Bosch Managed (some 307's Siemens)
HDI 2.0 110 (DW10ATED) All Bosch managed AFAIK
HDI 2.0 16v 136 (DW10ATED4) Bosch Managed
HDI 2.0 16v 138 (DW10BTED4) Siemens/Delphini Managed

[Toms306]

Had another look, and I've worked it out.

There are 2 versions of the 2.0 16v.
There is the 136 BHP version (in the 806 (406's too apparently, but not listed on SB), maybe others too, not looked yet) which is bosch managed.
And the 138 BHP version, fitted to the 307, 308, 407, 607, 807 which is siemens/delphni managed

I thought it was the 2.2 in 406's that was 136bhp? I looked at some 406 estates which were listed as having the 136 HDi 2.2.....?


So basically, are we saying that the head and injectors from the 136 would work fine with the current HDi setup? With a remap obviously.

[Connor]

It does work, theres a video somewhere... a 306 with a 16v HDi... 2secs

[Connor]

[Chris]

The 2.2 is a DW12TED4 different engine (longer stroke, same bore size) to the 2.0, but yes the head will fit the DW10TD, but you need the pistons and these may not fit in the DW10 block.

[Toms306]

The 2.2 is a DW12TED4 different engine to the 2.0, but yes the head will fit the DW10TD, but you need the pistons and these may not fit in the DW10 block.

My bad, I meant the 136 2.0 head from the 806 (or some shitroens as well?) that you mentioned....that'd fit with the injectors and current management setup yeah?

[Chris]

Should be a straight bolt up job tbh. although you'll still need the pistons.

[Poodle]

Also, no-one answered my question of how you know what's gonna fit??

Don't always, just have to rely on servicebox and what we can see in scrappies and garages etc and make an educated guess. Or at least that's it in my case, don't know about darren, suspect that's more "it always fits, but the amount of welder/hammer work varies".

[Toms306]

Also, no-one answered my question of how you know what's gonna fit??

Don't always, just have to rely on servicebox and what we can see in scrappies and garages etc and make an educated guess. Or at least that's it in my case, don't know about darren, suspect that's more "it always fits, but the amount of welder/hammer work varies".

Haha fair enough. . Only problem is I can't weld so stuff would need to be straight fit I think.

[Ruan]

Why do you want a 16v HDi?

I thought Diesels were shit, and you only want a petrol.... For what you'll spend on a valver HDi you could near enough pay for half a years fuel, not to mention the hassle with immobilisers and various other inevitable EMLs etc...

Stick with an 8v unless you're wanting nutty power.... They flow just fine, all you need is a bigger turbo, Bryns was dynoed at 210 ish with effectively a big turbo, and bigger nozzles - might have been stock nozzles even and just a larger HP pump...

You could easily sit at 170hp with just a bigger turbo on a 2.0 8v.

[Toms306]

Why do you want a 16v HDi?

I thought Diesels were shit, and you only want a petrol.... For what you'll spend on a valver HDi you could near enough pay for half a years fuel, not to mention the hassle with immobilisers and various other inevitable EMLs etc...

Stick with an 8v unless you're wanting nutty power.... They flow just fine, all you need is a bigger turbo, Bryns was dynoed at 210 ish with effectively a big turbo, and bigger nozzles - might have been stock nozzles even and just a larger HP pump...

You could easily sit at 170hp with just a bigger turbo on a 2.0 8v.

Well at least you agree that diesels are shit. But they're also good for poor people, can't afford to fuel, tax or insure a '6 or a CTR or anything remotely nice atm.

So a HDi with the power of a '6 was looking very interesting.

I can now see that the cost of 16Valving a Hdi is ridiculous, which I guess is why its not done often, and clearly if I did buy a HDi I'd have to stop at a big blower, an FMIC and a remap, which should still see 170bhp..... But that doesn't stop me writing about it in the project.

Bryns not on here is he? Might have to drop him a pm on .net if he's still about.

[Ruan]

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see a 16v hdi in a 306, but you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.. It's not a massive expense... All you'd need a Bosch managed 16v, an 8v clutch, flywheel and box, or convert to an xud clutch or whatever and basically wang the 8v management on the 16v block. Everything fits if you've got an 8v block to pilfer parts from... But you'll never do it because you'll claim diesels are shit and a gti6 is better... Done PROPERLY, a stock 16v should see 200hp with the right turbo, you'd see 180 to 190 on the stock 1749va, same as the Vag 130 and 150 pds... And effectively limitless power if you get some decent nozzles and a whopping turbo...

[Toms306]

I think the expense is relative though.....you probably have a lot more spare cash than I do!!

As much as I like petrols............I can see diesel is the way forward (for now, until hydrogen or whatever else) and I'm finally starting to get into this diesel tuning 'thing' tbh.....

I bought the golf for the wrong reasons - I couldn't afford to fuel the 1.8 and was given some money to spend on something 'better than a 306' (not my words). So I found something that did 60mpg, cost £115 a year to tax and should have been reliable enough to last me a year without having to do anything to do anything to it and had 130bhpz....while I sorted out some other 'stuff' that was going on at the time. I can see that was a bad decision now. But when I ignore mpg and the fact that on stock suspension it handles like a boat, when I ocassionally get it in the right gear and boot it, it really does shift and at the point I don't care what its running off.......over the last week or two have actually started liking the diesel idea..........

And thats what interetseted me enough to do the project on it.....not gonna lie I'd love a '6, but its not gonna happen so next best thing is diesel modding!

Unfortunately I think this 'may' not be happening with a HDi now.....however, the FMIC, bigger turbo, remap, de-cat, de-egr etc WILL hopefully be happening to the next car I buy....

It's really down to money though............theres never enough of it to actually do what I want.............if money was no object I would be 16Valving a HDi.