Rattle and losing power at 2.5k revs..

[kyleo92]

As some of you know my car was making a rattling sound, found out it was the crankshaft pulley which got replaced..

Since then I have done around 5 thousand miles and on my way home the rattle came back and gets louder the more I rev, it also loses power at around two and a half thousand revs which happens in all gears..

It starts ok

What could it be?

My friend suggested timing?

Got it booked in at the garage tomorrow but I'd like an idea if what it is before I could potentially get mugged off haha

[Poodle]

AFAIK these won't start if the timing is out, so doubt very much it's that. What's the odo on?

[kyleo92]

143k buddy

[Poodle]

Could be a knackered turbo i guess... Do you service her often?

[andywhy]

Rattle could be an injector? Does it get worse with higher RPM's?

[kyleo92]

Yeah rattle does get worse with rev increase but cuts at just over 2k rpm whereas thought injectors were around 3k rpm.

Hmm.. Service every 15k miles, which is 3 times this year.

[Poodle]

Injectors will stop rattling at 3k rpm, it's unlikely that someone used to HDi's will genuinely complain about injector tick as an unknown noise lol. Worth checking the crank pulley again imo, unless you replaced it with a genuine/solid part..?

Is the noise definitely coming from the engine bay? Don't know how much mechanical knowledge you've got, could be something as simple as a loose heat-shield.

15k is a long time, longer even than the recommended interval, which is widely regarded as too long. At least change the oil and filter every 10k or more, turbos need clean oil to last/work well.

[kyleo92]

Injectors will stop rattling at 3k rpm, it's unlikely that someone used to HDi's will genuinely complain about injector tick as an unknown noise lol. Worth checking the crank pulley again imo, unless you replaced it with a genuine/solid part..?

15k is a long time, longer even than the recommended interval, which is widely regarded as too long. At least change the oil and filter every 10k or more, turbos need clean oil to last/work well.

Thanks for the heads up,

Tbh I don't know exactly what crankshaft pulley they replaced it with, I do an oil change around every 8k but everything else I leave until the 15k mark..

Means I'd be doing 5-7 full services a year the mileage I do haha!

I'll see what the garage say when they call me

And let you know what they suggest

[Poodle]

Ah fair enough, yeah i meant oil changes, should have been more specific. That sounds like you've got perfectly good service intervals tbf.

[kyleo92]

Right the mechanic rang me and said that the whole of my top end has pretty much gone, suggested it would be cheaper to drop a new engine into it than get parts and fitting and stuff..

Grrr! Lol

[Poodle]

Bad times dude.

What better excuse though i guess.

[kyleo92]

Seeing as I need a car for Monday.. I'm thinking of just buying another 306 , putting my bits onto it and breaking the old one.. Much less hassle than am engine rebuild / drop another one in..

2 weeks before Xmas, typical lol

[Poodle]

Yeah sod's law.

Could do i guess, thought your current one was pretty clean though? Keep it as a project?

[kyleo92]

Yeah the shell isn't too bad apart from a dent in the back end..

Use my car for work so just gotta take what's available..

Or I buy another 306 then when ive got the time, drop that engine into my old baby then she can be my peugeotsteins monster MWHAHAHAHAHA!

[Toms306]

What's actually failed then? Just interested as I didn't think HDis really suffered from engine problems.

[Piggy]

sounds like this mechanic is taking you for a ride...'whole top end'....thats pretty rare...I have seen early hdi's do 350k with poor servicing and no engine issues

[kyleo92]

Mentioned something a long the lines of being cam related, suggested that new new engine would be cheaper than parts and fitting on the existing..

[Piggy]

v odd indeed....how long did they take to look at it...?

[kyleo92]

I dropped it off at 9.30 yesterday and said could you take a look at the engine, and he noticed while my car was parked up that it was in gear so said that he'd do my handbrake as well.. Got a phonecall at 2.15 to say that he'd spent all morning looking at it.. I had a look at the engine when i got home and you could tell that he had been looking around it..

Been to the place before for servicing and stuff they are pretty good..

---

sounds like this mechanic is taking you for a ride...'whole top end'....thats pretty rare...I have seen early hdi's do 350k with poor servicing and no engine issues

Wow! You were up at 4:46 in the morning?

[Poodle]

Hahaha do it!

Tbf it's not something i've heard of often before, certainly not on a stock engine. Any chance you could get specifics from him? I'd be interested...

[kyleo92]

Wow just spoke to my boss, he said that I could have next week off as holiday (I forgot I have 4.5 days remaining this year) also we close from the 21st December until the 2nd January so it gives me 3 weeks to either look for an engine or a new car :-D

[Mr Whippy]

Yeah 'whole top end gone' is a funny one imo...

Especially if it stops making a funny noise at 2000rpm!?

If anything 'gone' things sound worse as they spin faster and harder

Hmmmm

Good luck getting it sorted anyway!

Dave

[kyleo92]

taking it to another garage tomorrow who have done bits to my car before.. just to get a second opinion,

i get the feeling its fuel related, surely if my cam belt has snapped for instance my car wouldnt run?

im just hoping its a blocked hose or pump or something ..

[Mr Whippy]

A second opinion is always a good bet imo... especially when the diagnosis is a new engine!

It could just be a fooked and very noisy injector, but surprised it's not logged a fault code or something.

The fact it's down on power and not logging a code is also suspect. Is it really down on power, or just feeling down on power?


Could be valve train related, I know some people have had burnt out/sticky valves eventually cause failure of the engine... not sure why exactly. I think Chris Bell has had the before on an engine years back!?

Dave

[kyleo92]

hey Dave,

i'll give the best description i can,

starts 1st turn, does rattle a little in idle which sound like its coming from the left side of the engine (same noise as when i had my crankshaft pulley replaced)

As I increase revs the rattle gets louder (no loss of power yet)

As i push it into the 2-2.5k RPM it loses power and if i try and keep revving higher it jolts as if its going to cut out, now i think that sounds like its being starved of fuel or something?

when im in the 2-2.5k range it just sound like a ridiculous amount of air being pushed in to my engine area

kind of the best description i can give.


Another thing i think maybe is.. since this guy fitted the crank pulley, maybe he didnt fit it properly and its gone or has triggered it to go. maybe doesn't want to admit that is his fault/problem and is suggesting another fault instead

[Mr Whippy]

I guess if the valve timing was out a little bit... but I'm sure they check for that with the cam sensor vs crank sensor... so you'd have a fault.

If you get a 2nd person saying the same as the 1st guy then you are kinda sure it's probably right what they say... just try get an actual reason why it's doing it.

The air noise sounds like turbo related, but then the jolting and loss of power more injection related.

Hence me thinking valve train related, as it kinda impacts fuelling (of air), and air management, and thus power etc...

It'd also probably mean no faults are noted.


Hmmm

Still hard to say for sure.

Dave

[kyleo92]

I guess if the valve timing was out a little bit... but I'm sure they check for that with the cam sensor vs crank sensor... so you'd have a fault.

If you get a 2nd person saying the same as the 1st guy then you are kinda sure it's probably right what they say... just try get an actual reason why it's doing it.

The air noise sounds like turbo related, but then the jolting and loss of power more injection related.

Hence me thinking valve train related, as it kinda impacts fuelling (of air), and air management, and thus power etc...

It'd also probably mean no faults are noted.


Hmmm

Still hard to say for sure.

Dave

Thanks Dave,

Valve train repairs / replacements, are they expensive?

Yeah I don't know what is up with my ecu / obd port cause it never throws anything up and a lot of things have gone wrong on my car?? Yet I have no management light on

[Poodle]

Do you get any smoke out the back when this happens?

To the best of my knowledge the car wont start if you havent got cam and crank sync, at the very least it will throw a relevant code.

[kyleo92]

Normal exhaust fumes.. They do come out a little more *puff-puff* instead of continuous

(sorry was hard to keep a straight face while writing that)

Like I say ive got 3 weeks to get it sorted..

I will definitely let you guys know what the other garage says tomorrow

[Poodle]

Hmmm...

Odd, very odd. Please do, pretty lost on this one. See if you can get a list of the codes its throwing up too.