advice on do's and dont's?

[Jonny81191]

Brand spanking new..

[Mr Whippy]

Massive gains from an R70?

I'd love to see proof, mine feels exactly the same, as it should do. It's only a HP pump at the end of the day.

There is no real gain at all unless you use the potential it has.

The problem is the standard pump spins hard enough (just) in good condition to make enough fuelling for maxing out the available air in the mid range that a small GT15 can make.
At the top end the turbo is losing flow and once again the standard pump can just start to make enough pressure to make injections just as the turbo is reaching it's limit.

The only way you can really take advantage of the better pump is if you have a bigger turbo really, then you can justify making higher pressure and higher volume injections needed.

But even then it's not so clear cut. Run a bigger turbo and it moves the torque band up the rev range, thus the demand for bigger injections is at higher rpm, and at higher rpm the standard pump can make more pressure or pump more volume too...

In theory a standard pump should be good for about 300lbft at 2250rpm and 180bhp at 4000rpm... Unless you plan to breach either of those figures at either of those points then a *good* condition standard injection system should be fine (as I've seen those figures on standard kit!)

Dave

[Jonny81191]

Hmm. How much power do you reckon could be made using "proper" uprated/increased flow injectors? But using the 1600 bar sensor?

[Poodle]

1800..? The DV6 one, yeah? I seem to remember tb205 has made 209(I think... maybe... ish....?) on std injectors, so i should think uprated ones would be good for a reliable 220, if you can get the turbo to match.

[Jonny81191]

No mate, i already have the 1800 bar one, but I ultimately want reliability and power in the long run, so i was considering going back to 1600 bar to ease the load on the HP system. But I still want to be able to make the power.

[Poodle]

Ah fair enough, going for higher flow rather than pressure i take it..? I would guess about 10bhp difference, based on no knowledge whatsoever.

[Jonny81191]

yeah, high flow would be more reliable.. but pressure.. I dunno, will have to research.

[Mr Whippy]

All higher pressure does is shorten injection times for the same injected amount. That is handy if your injections are getting too long.

Bigger injectors can do the same shorter injection at the same pressure, but of course you need a pump that can still flow the high volume!

If you want to run 1500bar peak on an 1800bar sensor just map it for less peak pressure.

Running MORE pressure than you need at any given point is costing you power in parasitic losses (the HP pump costs power to run!)


What really matters most is the pump for your torque and thus power curve. You need X injected in Y time to make power Z. You do that calculation across the whole rpm range. There is a limit due to the pump.

The injectors then have a limit but as we have seen we can make about 200bhp at 4000rpm, and 320lbft at around 2250rpm (both Pete's VNT car) with these injectors with the appropriate pump behind it, so better injectors are really not needed to that kinda point.


It's probably best more to look at what power/torque you want, and the curve shape, and then see what you'd need to achieve different options.

Ie, sticking with standard pump/injectors in good condition, what is the best curve shape I can achieve (assuming the perfect turbo)
Upgrading injectors only, what can I achieve (probably not much more than standard if at all as the pump is what is limiting things)
Upgrading pump only, what is the peak torque curve shape I can achieve (again assuming perfect turbo)
Finally upgrading both to well known items, what is the peak curve you could get...


I might try work this out soon.


Hmmm

Whatever you do the limits will likely be on the quality of the bits themselves rather than the original specification of them! So whatever you buy, budget to buy/recondition it to be in top condition to expect to get anything like the best performance from it

Dave