Timing / Cam noises from HDi 2.0

[nauest]

Hi Guys,

New to the forum so bear with me. Just got myself a well serviced < 100k mile HDi. Just started making a low pitch whining grinding noise coming from the cam belt side of the engine. :? I was thinking it could be a faulty idler or tensioner. Anyone know a guide for exchanging the cam belt on the HDi or a way I could check the idlers without having to remove the belt / lock off the various parts? Would usually be up to the task but I am at uni in exeter, this is an unfamiliar engine, I have very few tools and I am 300 miles from home! Could be a bit stuck. The noise isn't getting worse fast, but I would at least like to check under the covers to check all of the idlers are spinning and that something isn't eating the belt.

Have receipt for the belt being changed at 65k by a pug centre.

Also am I right in thinking the water pump on the 2l HDi is on an aux belt not the timing belt?

Any input much appreciated guys!

Cheers

[Daniel306]

pump is on the timing belt, and if the belt was last done at 65k it due to be done again

[Poodle]

Service intervals on these belts is around 80k iirc, so don't worry about having to replace the cambelt. Pump is on the timing belt as said above, there would be no way to check a tensioner/idler on either belt without taking the whole thing off, please don't attempt to do it without locking the timing properly etc if you're looking at the cambelt. Anything to do with belts on this engine is a complete ball ache if you've not done it before, if it's not getting worse quickly you might get away with leaving it until you're home, but that's up to you. I'd be inclined to get in there myself, but i tend to be a bit of a perfectionist with my cars.

[nauest]

Cheers Guys,

How much do you reckon a good indi Garage would charge to replace the cambelt and idlers? The water pump was done with the last cambelt. Would prefer not to change it again but, I guess its probably worth doing if doing the lot

[Eeyore]

Kris B Quotes:

XU Engine Series (1.9td, 1.9d, 2.0 8v, hdi etc ~ £220

*Cambelt prices include Waterpump, Idlers/Tensioners and Coolant, Also warranty

Normally find his prices are pretty good to go by. Unless you go to peugeot and then you can add a bazillion pounds to that estimate! :roll:

[aircool]

Paid circa £240 for cambelt and auxbelt (no water pump which was my mistake!) that was in an indie in Knowle about 10 miles away from exeter ;-)

[nauest]

Cool, my only concern is that I am not sure if that is the source of the noise. If I had all that done and its still an issue that would suck Would prefer to take a look at it myself with the help of a mate with a workshop / race car garage. Only issue is, risks of something braking before I can get it home. Might take the cambelt cover off just to check no obvious big issues (stuck idlers, eaten belt, wobbly bearings etc.)

Anyone know the procedure for taking the top cam belt cover off? there are two bolts I can see clearly, not sure if there are any I cant see. Will post progress.

Got to drive it on 200 mile roundtrip tomorrow , fingers crossed I don't come back on here asking how to change bent valves :/

[Poodle]

Remove the top engine mount and bracket to roll the engine forwards a bit for access and so you can get the cover of without breaking it (stick a jack and a bit of wood under the sump so it doesn't just drop). Need to remove the front cover first, two bolts i think, easily accessible, the the rear cover is a further 3 bolts iirc and loosen one near the crank pulley. One of the bolts is hidden down the back of the block behind a water pipe, will need to unclip that and move it out of the way. Cover then slides up and off and you can see your cambelt.

[nauest]

Cheers Poodle

I will see if I can borrow the tools from the Uni Engineering Dept, they are pretty cool about that kind of thing.

I have run the engine with he AUX belt removed, noise is still there. That eliminates power steering pump, AC pump and alternator + AUX idlers.

Pretty certain it is Cambelt related now. Has anyone heard of the actual camshaft bearings failing? Worn out idler seems most likely I reckon.

Covered 200 miles motorway driving today, no change, so at least its not getting worse. The car was a pleasure to drive though!

link to video of noise attached, don't worry about the clicking its just a loose engine cover.

http://www.facebook.com/v/10150731214070450

[Poodle]

Holy f*ck that sounds horrible, I couldn't put up with that. On the upside you could just put a white sheet over your car for halloween and rev it every time kids go past, dub it the "ghost of french engineering". :S

Never heard of camshaft bearings failing, doesn't mean it can't happen though. I take it you've checked that's definitely the engine cover ticking, removed it and seen if the noise is still there right..?

[nauest]

Haha, it really isn't that bad, I had my phone right up against it while recording, you can hardly hear it from inside the car. You can happily drown it out completely if you have your fans on. Still deosnet mean I want to live with it though!

Yuh the clicking tapping is most definitely the engine cover, the engine is pretty smooth other than that noise.

[Poodle]

Uhuh... I'm gonna guess you're not what we'd call an "enthusiast"...

[nauest]

I don't know, I do own 6 cars and 2 speedboats that I cant possibly afford to run : ) I am a petrol head, just perhaps not very well educated one! Im not trying to deny it sounds f*king awful, just not nearly as bad as it seems in the vid.

The clicking is fixed, got the new engine cover clips in the post today along with a cambelt kit and a few other bits, which I will fit when I get home.

I am guilty of not being a true 306 enthusiast, (Despite SRowell trying to convert me ) but still a 306 owner by choice! Doesn't mean I don't care about my 306 being in a bad state or with problems like this one. This 306 is the only car I use on the road ATM, and its a damn good one too thats why I traveled 200 miles to buy this specific one. Problem is most of my money goes on my other motors.

Sorry if I am cause any offense amongst the 306oc, just respect the knowledge on this forum and wanted some help.

With the fans, I was just letting you know how loud it was! i.e. its not as loud as it appears in the video, doesn't mean thats what I intend to do! Wouldn't dream of putting my car though this any longer than it needs to get fixed. Just might help in suggestions of what's wrong. No doubt some of the people on here have heard every different sound a faulty 306 can make, and how loud they usually are!

Cheers

[Poodle]

Hahahah, fair play! And no offence caused here dude, sorry if that came across wrong. I'm just a bit of a sarcastic bastard/wind-up merchant a lot of the time, i promise it's nothing personal.

Sounds like you're living the dream to me, you do it however you want to do it, i've got no right to judge you on what you do with your cars. I'm happy to help whoever.

[nauest]

Haha, no worries, Cheers

You have been good help already, I had the top cambelt covers off. There doesn't appear to be any serious issues, the belt is in good nik and all the idlers are spinning true. I think one of the bearings is on the way out. Like I said I have the kit so will get it changed asap. I will post up if that fixes it!

Cheers

[Mr Whippy]

Glad it all seems fairly ok!

You never know what you will find under the covers. We bought my mum a 306 HDi, had a good history etc etc, cambelt done 20k ago. My brother checked anyway, and when he removed the covers, a tensioner was on it's way out and so running at an angle, and the belt had worn half through... eeek!

In my view it's well worth sorting all this stuff when you get a HDi. Cambelt aside they are rather bullet proof really!

KrisB looks like the best bet, that is a great price for a real pain in the arse job. Ratchet spanners to the rescue (for those fecking cam covers, how tight!)

Dave

[nauest]

I have heard great things about the HDi, thats why I wanted to get one. Took a lot of patience to find one sub 100k with all the stuff I wanted (everything ). + In metallic grey rather than silver which I love. In serious danger of getting very attached to my 306!

Also managed to sort out most of the issues that it had very easily, not a bad car to work on. Starting to see why you guys love them!

[nauest]

Just been looking though the reams of service history for this car and have just found some interesting news. I have just found a receipt here for a cambelt being changed at 85000 miles (less than 6k ago). The reason for the premature change is quoted as being due to a BROKEN "Crankshaft pulley" the garage in question charged £80 for just the pulley, and a further £95 for a so called "Cambelt Kit". This changes things somewhat!

1. Surely a 'Cambelt kit' would include the tensioner and idler pulley.

2. Why would it fail again so quickly, if that is the problem

3. Could he be referring to something other than the cambelt tensioner and idler? I sure cant think of anything.

Just glad I wasn't picking up the outrageous £665 bill!! I bought this HDi off a elderly couple, I think someone has been taking the piss. It was an Indie garage (no idea why the couple switched to this one, every other service has been by a Pug main dealer)

There is no way a tensioner could be making this much noise in so few miles, do you reckon there could be another problem here? Anything that could lead to premature pulley failure? Perhaps the new part was just faulty? Should I be getting annoyed at someone here?

I initially thought I had a 58K cambelt and gear, so was reasonably happy to change it and hope that shuts up the noise, not so sure now!

I am peeved, mainly for the previous owners, seeing as I hardly paid more than that one bill for the car, and now that job is getting done again less than 10k later! If it had been mine at the time I would be smashing some heads!

This is all based on the assumption that this is the problem, it is also possible that this noise has been about since the work was done, the noise is the same now as when I got it, haggled a considerable amount off because of it!

I have a new Dayco Cambelt kit on the way.

Input and thought appreciated! Would be nice to know if others think something is up here!

Cheers again, Essay / Rant over

[Eeyore]

What 6 cars have you got Ned? Dw ill take on of those speed boats off you soon enough :dance:

Like... its good that it has been changed recently but then bad that its still making the noise.

Then again... i service my gf regularly and she is still making noises. jks i dont have a gf!

[nauest]

Thats a good point rowel, I could drop off the speedboat while coming to pick up your windscreen wiper motor!

Have you not seen my off road car bonanza! TBF 3 of them have been crashed now One of the videos is on my profile.

[Poodle]

Yeah, the term "kit" would make me think it was the belt and tensioners/idlers. If an indy garage charged that much and it's now making the noise, i would be considering the idea they used non-genuine tensioners, may also be that they didn't change the water-pump as well, would definitely recommend changing that whilst you're in there.

[nauest]

Yeah thats what I thought, sounds like it could be a dodgy garage.

Is it worth getting a water pump with metal impeller? Does it make mach difference?

[Poodle]

Don't know tbh, i got the one with the metal impeller as i thought it would be more efficient for longer (less wear), no idea if it makes any difference in reality lol.

[Mr Whippy]

For that end of the engine just get all the best stuff.

I did a Dayco kit and WP when I first got my HDi and then I didn't worry a sausage about it since. Once it's done it's done for the time you will probably own the car
Also a good excuse time to do the coolant, which again you can then forget about while you have it.

Main thing is just making sure it's done right, but I'm sure you will make sure it's right


I just can't believe so many garages do these cambelts and do them badly so they are going again in a year or two. They should be named and shamed out of business. Technically it's not even a hard job, it's just fiddly!

Dave

[nauest]

HI Everyone,

Right got good news I have rapped this one up, got the new Dayco kit fitted at mates rates at a proper Pug main dealer (Also new metal water pump). The engine is now silky smooth!

I asked for them to leave me the old parts to Inspect and as suspected the tensioner pulley had about 0.5 mm of play in it which is massively unacceptable for a cambelt part! The Cambelt kit put in before was some Chinese brand I didn't recognize, looks like they are bollocks. The Peugeot engineer also said he checked the old belt tension digitally, whihc we did out of interest and the previous garage had the tension wildly too high (even after some stretching I imagine). So pretty much zero marks for the old garage.

So I'm happy and the job has been done so hopefully wont have to worry about that again! Moral of the story, get premium Cambelt kits fitted!

[Poodle]

Good to hear, cheers for updating.

[nauest]

UPDATE: the previous cam belt kit was made by FAI, probs worth avoiding them!