Upgraded fuel pump and pressure sensor

[JTaylor2005]

Hey all,

If I was to get an upgraded fuel pump and the pressure sensor off the 1.6hdi and then run it on a stage 1 map, would I be right in thinking less injector duration would be needed meaning more fuel could be injected nearer the start of the stroke meaning less smoke and egt??

Cheers

[Poodle]

Best person to talk to is Steve at hdi-tuning.co.uk, he did a map like that for me last year. The main benefits will be in mpg and driveability, rather than any real power gain.

Why not go stage 2? You'll get a lot more power for less expenditure.

[JTaylor2005]

I want to keep the car as reliable as possible really to start with. I was going to aim for stage 1 with those pump mods for the mpg and general driveability. Then after 6-12 months of enjoying stage 1 I will start aiming for more with a good baseline to start with

[Poodle]

Are you aware that a refurbed r70 pump and new 1800bar sensor will set you back about £500 before they're mapped in..?

[JTaylor2005]

So
This
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C5-C8-...5b086daff4
and then a 1.6hdi fuel pressure sensor wouldn't work?

[Jtrigga]

I would just go to stage 2 still very reliable (except a few boost pipes coming off due to crap clips). It's easy enough to do just a clutch I'm running a Berlingo one on a stage 2+, a front mount with a 406 elbow and random piping and a manual boost controller.

[Poodle]

It might do, yeah. Depends how good the scrapyard are with looking after fuel pumps properly.

Tbh an intercooler, mbc and a 145bhp limited torque map would probably be about the best trade off for power, reliability and economy. Keep the revs down and the head will be fine.

[JTaylor2005]

Ahhh I see I know they are fragile but I didn't think they were that bad :/ Will have to have a look around at whats available. I mean I dont even fancy pushing much more than 130/135hp to start with but a limited torque one could work. However having a stage on for a while means no faff with the intercooler, boost controller, boost gauge, and stuff like that to start with.

I could make a smooth, better mpg car with the good pump and fuel pressure sensor and then a decent stage one with egr delete

[dashmader]

Rail pressure sensor from a cdti is the best to go with

[Poodle]

Any diesel fuel pump needs to be stored properly, same as anything thats lubricated by what it pumps. Give an engine a few months sat on a shelf in a slightly damp building and that will seize too, doesn't mean it's delicate.

What's your aim here? Sounds like you want more power for less work, but changing the fuel pump is a cambelt off job, personally i'd consider intercooling just as "easy" and definitely more fun. Just because it can make 170bhp doesn't mean it has to, you can set the power level and driving characteristics with your mapper.

[JTaylor2005]

Nahh im aiming for a refined half way point. The stage one will take the car to around 120ish on its own yeah? However my cambelt will probably be getting replaced at some point so could do the pump as well.
I will be happy with 125hp and having a high pressure pump will mean earlier injection? Less smoke and less wasted diesel? Paired with a nice air intake and probably an exhaust at some point will make for a nicely tuned car at a good baseline for the next stages after an intercooler?

[Poodle]

Fair enough, ok. Depends what you want, i understand jammapic is offering heavy stage 1 maps that make over 130bhp, but the trade-off there is a bit more smoke and possibly a bit less reliability.

You've got your reasoning right with higher pressure meaning lower durations, etc, but i'm not convinced you'll see much benefit. Go for it though, i would be very interested to see what gains you get.

The r70 pump isn't actually rated for any higher pressure output than the standard r65 pump, it just flows more. If you're staying at that kind of power i'd suggest leaving the pump standard and installing the dv6 frps and seeing how it gets on. Also, get a free flowing exhaust, but leave the airbox standard - there is very little this side of £200 that will flow more than the standard item without compromising filtering. Certainly avoid oiled filters as they are known for munching through mafs.

[JTaylor2005]

Ahh okays cheers for the advice and ahh I see if they are rated at the same pressure then my idea of having shorter durations wouldnt work?
You see I pressumed that it would be running higher pressure and thats why I needed the different pressure sensor.

cheers for the input

[Midnightclub]

Officially, how much more will an R70 flow over a R65?

[HDi--Power]

13% more

[Poodle]

What they are rated to and what they will achieve are two different things, but if you've got a healthy pump as standard then you shouldn't need the pump upgrade to run higher pressure. The idea is sound though, assuming your pump is good you will just need the frps to run higher pressure.

[pro_steve]

You can run a tiny bit more rail pressure to get better fuel economy, but obviously there's a point when the power required to drive the pump overcomes the gain in fuel economy, and also it will wear the pump faster. So when making a map with the 1800 bar fuel pressure sensor and R70 pump I don't make much of a change during part load conditions, what I do do is to increase fuel pressure at the higher revs and full load to reduce injection duration and hence smoke and EGT. Even with an R70 pump there comes a point on stage 3 tunes where the pump can't keep up with both the fuel flow and pressure, however this does usually depend on the condition of the pump.

I set up a stage 1 with high fuel pressure on Poodle's car, it ended up with 130 BHP but for the extra money I wouldn't say it's worth it for 5 BHP. Quite interesting though as the Siemens SID801 system runs 1500 bar fuel pressure from the factory, these can go to 130 BHP on a stage 1 with no smoke easily. This shows that the extra fuel pressure makes a difference on the injection duration.

[JTaylor2005]

Yeah thats cool I was just wondering purely because I was thinking it would reduce smoke, egt, maybe make it run a little sweeter.

Then with a decent exhaust as well maybe gain me a few hp haha

cheers for the info

[Poodle]

Tbf with that map and a stripped car i was getting over 50mpg on the b-road and town commute, twenty minutes and it barely warmed up.