Water in Engine

[steve1001]

The fuel cut off is the red button behind the battery

Thanks Tom. Found the red button, I pressed on it, it had not popped up. Tried to start, still a no go. Never ever noticed the big red button in all these years!!

[pug306driver]

so a non starter, bummer, does engine "breath"?? ( exhaust full of water?? ) .

turning engine over by hand is a good idea.

how deep was the water, enough to submerge the gear box ( water in there as well?? ) water in starter motor??

water in tank fuel lift pump/connections?? can you hear the tank pump working??

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Did water get up as far as the brown relay behind the battery and ecu, to do with the fuel system,  also the 2 relays under the black box cover behind the battery to do with the cooling system heating system??

water in alternator, seen on hear the ecu feed is from the alternator, white wire???

the fan relays may be water logged also?? they live undo a black cover under the plastic front trim, the one held on with 4 plastic clips and a centre bolt, hdi estate.

the list is growing but can you hear the tank pump?? hope is lives for you!

[maxaret]

Fingers crossed for you Steve...

I did this in my old 5hitroen ZX 1.9 (non turbo) diesel a few years ago,I was in the middle of nowhere in Wilts - drove into this mini lake that was a LOT deeper than it looked,but I was lucky and could still turn the engine over,given the choice of getting (very) wet or risk damaging the engine - because it was a cheap runaround I just put it into first and cranked it out on the starter motor LOL.
Once safely on the far shore I pulled the air filter out and threw it in the boot - it was a sodden mess - dried out the filter housing/intake as much as possible and managed to get the engine started,she was smoking and stuttering like hell LOL so I drove without an air filter to the nearest motor factor (15 miles) to get a new filter.
On the way there the engine gradually stopped smoking and smoothed out - I drove that car for another 2 years before I sold it and went back to a turbo.
I had only bought the ZX as a stopgap when I wrote off my xantia by driving slowly into a Range Rover : )

[steve1001]

Thanks for the other suggestions.

I'm at work this week and will have another good go at it on Friday and Saturday.

I'll disconnect the boost pipe and remove the plugs again. Everything is dry and clean in inlet pipes leading to the turbo. This time, I'll do a hand crank with the plugs out and see how it feels.
I'll check the exhaust. Hope I can split it without do any damage to it, as it is quite old. I'll try and see if the back box is blocked. Edit: Thinking about it, I'll get someone to turn it over while I feel for any pressure with my hand over the end of the exhaust.

I think the starter is ok. It turns the engine over briskly with the plugs out.

I think the fuel pump is ok (lift pump?). I disconnected a fuel line at the fuel heater to gain access to a glow plug. I later bled the air out of the fuel system by undoing the drain on the fuel filter housing, and turning the ignition on 4 or 5 times, to activate the fuel pump. It pumped fuel out of the drain, so I guess it is ok.

I was thinking something electrical as well. I'll get under and inspect all the connectors and relays and do a few tests (long job). I'll maybe cover the whole front with a sheet and put a fan heater under it for a while. I'm still seeing puddles in a few places in the engine bay. Everything on the front of the engine was soaked (including alternator). The ecu area was dry. I'll have thorough look in case there is anything to be seen. All lights indicators horn alarms etc work fine.

I've got Lexia3 PP2000 coming in the next day or so. Got it on the bay for £65. I'll see what that finds.

I think I need to do a compression test, but I can't find any cheap diesel kits, only petrol ones. The diesel kits are all over a £100!

Steve

[toseland]

most garages will do one much less...

with the compression, if you have only knackered one cylinder it may still run but it'll run like a bag of shite, my XUD snapped one of the injector lines and dropped cylinder 2, and still ran to get me to the layby whilst I went home to get my spare one.

if its not starting at all I would hazard a guess that something else has water in it that's stopping the fuel getting into the cylinder.

it may be as simple as air in the lines or filter that hasn't been pulled through yet.

[Poodle]

The fuel system is self-bleeding on these, so it won't be that. Try charging the battery and drying out your engine bay, if that doesn't do it she's probably dead. A compression test is needed really, see if you can get a local garage to do it.

[steve1001]

Work has got in the way, so I have not yet had time to get under the car and get my hands dirty.
I manager to get some data from pp2000 (first time user).
When I communicated with the ecu for the first time, there were faults present, but sorry I cleared those. I thought I had pressed F2 to save the screen of faults, but apparently not. There were no codes, just descriptions.
No ecu engine faults have re-appeared since, and I have cranked the engine loads of times.

The following data was obtained during cranking over with no firing.  Does it look ok?

[Poodle]

That all looks fine, needed those codes really... I prefer pen and paper myself, always have a notepad for codes, or if you're that stuck for kit take a picture on your phone.

[Toms306]

Cranking speed looks a bit low tbh, is that with a decent battery?

[steve1001]

Cranking speed looks a bit low tbh, is that with a decent battery?

Battery is an Exide. It was fully charged. Part way into the test, I started my sons Suzuki car, and connected jump leads from his battery to the 306 battery, as the 306 battery started to get run down.
I too think the rpm is a bit on the low side, but I don't know what the normal cranking rpm is for these.

---

That all looks fine, needed those codes really... I prefer pen and paper myself, always have a notepad for codes, or if you're that stuck for kit take a picture on your phone.

I'm a plonker. Sorry for deleting the faults. There was about 9 sensor faults. IIRC, MAF zero, EGR zero, Fuel system etc. There was such a lot on that screen I thought I would do a save/capture, rather than write it down.

There was also faults on the 'built in systems interface' (these few I did write down):-
Intermittent - Engine management control unit - unlocking error.
Intermittent -RH door lock catch
Intermittent -deadlock RH switch

[Poodle]

Doesn't sound like anything that would be a problem in those codes tbf... Does the engine turn over evenly, or is it quicker/slower on some of the strokes?

[pug306driver]

which e bay special pp2000 did you plum for, you mentioned lexia??  do members rate this particular bit of kit, and how easy is it for you to use, would respect feed back as bank account will now allow me to buy pp2000 at last.

stick with trying to get the engine running, compression test a good idea as well as hand cranking for "feel".

if injectors are out,  test cylinder set to tdc, compare "probe depth" cylinder to cylinder. you should be able to chalk mark tdc/bdc ( which will be tdc on next cylinder ) low low low tech stroke measurement.  any marked difference?? cyl to cyl??

i am assuming that a probe can be insert down to touch a stationery piston via the inj hole??

[steve1001]

Doesn't sound like anything that would be a problem in those codes tbf... Does the engine turn over evenly, or is it quicker/slower on some of the strokes?

Not too sure, but I think it is fairly even. I will take another look later this week when I finish for Easter, and concentrate on how it sounds and report back. Thanks. for the ideas.

[steve1001]

which e bay special pp2000 did you plum for, you mentioned lexia??  do members rate this particular bit of kit, and how easy is it for you to use, would respect feed back as bank account will now allow me to buy pp2000 at last.

stick with trying to get the engine running, compression test a good idea as well as hand cranking for "feel".

if injectors are out,  test cylinder set to tdc, compare "probe depth" cylinder to cylinder. you should be able to chalk mark tdc/bdc ( which will be tdc on next cylinder ) low low low tech stroke measurement.  any marked difference?? cyl to cyl??

i am assuming that a probe can be insert down to touch a stationery piston via the inj hole??

PP2000, I bought this one ...... obdfamily

I can recommend that one as the ebay experience has been good.
Carefully read their ebay blog and understand what they are saying. This Lexia they are selling is NOT fully chipped. The fully chipped board is £85. This Lexia seems to work ok. The software seems up to date, version wise.

I think I've got this right ... the Lexia3 kit contains the multiplexer hardware unit (evolution drivers) that connects to the car ECU and delivers data back to your PC via the usb port. The software you install on the PC is Lexia, DiagBox and PP2000. The software is ancient, but easy enough to understand.

Their installation instructions are shite, and you have to mess around and scratch your head a bit, but I got there in the end, with a bit of persistence.

I had an old XP laptop lying around. I wiped the drive and reinstalled Windows, so I was installing to a clean machine. 

I installed DiagBox first, and PP2000 after that. All the unlocking codes work fine.  I think the software and data files are dated around 2010, so it is fairly new and covers the 306 and more modern cars (308 etc).

I pretty sure all this cheap pp2000 software and hardware on ebay is pirated, and you are entering 'cracked' codes. You have to run KeyGen, which generates the unlocking codes that the software requires. As I say, it all works good.

I had a bit of trouble installing DiagBox and it would not accept the code, but that was because I had not installed the drivers for the Network card on the PC. The obdfamily guy was happy to help and quickly got me through it via a simple email.

If you get Teamviewer on your laptop, the obdfamily guy is happy to take control and do the install for you. They seem to be decent people and I don't think they would be out to rip anything off your machine when they connect, so don't worry about that. 
They have got some negative feedback, but you always see that.

Once the software was installed I played about with it in the lounge, just to get familiar with it. 
I then took the laptop to the car, plugged the Lexia Main Unit usb cable into the laptop and then plugged the Lexia Main Unit comms cable into odb port near the fuse box. I run the Diagbox software, which ran PP2000, which communicated with the ECU with no problems.
One cool feature was the ability to test some of the sensors, relays, and other equipment. You can choose to, say, test the rad fans. It then sends a signal and turns on the fans. Neat.

I can't get a compression test done yet. I rang 2 local mobile repair guys and neither had a Diesel compression tester!
Someone else mentioned getting a 'stick' on the cylinders and measuring the lift to detect a bent rod. I might be able to rig something up to do that, but I probably will have to be more than millimetre accurate in order to detect differences. I was even thinking of getting each cyclinder at tdc and measuring the amount of liquid I could pour into each one

Its going to be slow on this as I'm busy with work at the moment.

Steve

[toseland]

which e bay special pp2000 did you plum for, you mentioned lexia??  do members rate this particular bit of kit, and how easy is it for you to use, would respect feed back as bank account will now allow me to buy pp2000 at last.

stick with trying to get the engine running, compression test a good idea as well as hand cranking for "feel".

if injectors are out,  test cylinder set to tdc, compare "probe depth" cylinder to cylinder. you should be able to chalk mark tdc/bdc ( which will be tdc on next cylinder ) low low low tech stroke measurement.  any marked difference?? cyl to cyl??

i am assuming that a probe can be insert down to touch a stationery piston via the inj hole??

PP2000, I bought this one ...... obdfamily

I can recommend that one as the ebay experience has been good.
Carefully read their ebay blog and understand what they are saying. This Lexia they are selling is NOT fully chipped. The fully chipped board is £85. This Lexia seems to work ok. The software seems up to date, version wise.

I think I've got this right ... the Lexia3 kit contains the multiplexer hardware unit (evolution drivers) that connects to the car ECU and delivers data back to your PC via the usb port. The software you install on the PC is Lexia, DiagBox and PP2000. The software is ancient, but easy enough to understand.

Their installation instructions are shite, and you have to mess around and scratch your head a bit, but I got there in the end, with a bit of persistence.

I had an old XP laptop lying around. I wiped the drive and reinstalled Windows, so I was installing to a clean machine. 

I installed DiagBox first, and PP2000 after that. All the unlocking codes work fine.  I think the software and data files are dated around 2010, so it is fairly new and covers the 306 and more modern cars (308 etc).

I pretty sure all this cheap pp2000 software and hardware on ebay is pirated, and you are entering 'cracked' codes. You have to run KeyGen, which generates the unlocking codes that the software requires. As I say, it all works good.

I had a bit of trouble installing DiagBox and it would not accept the code, but that was because I had not installed the drivers for the Network card on the PC. The obdfamily guy was happy to help and quickly got me through it via a simple email.

If you get Teamviewer on your laptop, the obdfamily guy is happy to take control and do the install for you. They seem to be decent people and I don't think they would be out to rip anything off your machine when they connect, so don't worry about that. 
They have got some negative feedback, but you always see that.

Once the software was installed I played about with it in the lounge, just to get familiar with it. 
I then took the laptop to the car, plugged the Lexia Main Unit usb cable into the laptop and then plugged the Lexia Main Unit comms cable into odb port near the fuse box. I run the Diagbox software, which ran PP2000, which communicated with the ECU with no problems.
One cool feature was the ability to test some of the sensors, relays, and other equipment. You can choose to, say, test the rad fans. It then sends a signal and turns on the fans. Neat.

I can't get a compression test done yet. I rang 2 local mobile repair guys and neither had a Diesel compression tester!
Someone else mentioned getting a 'stick' on the cylinders and measuring the lift to detect a bent rod. I might be able to rig something up to do that, but I probably will have to be more than millimetre accurate in order to detect differences. I was even thinking of getting each cyclinder at tdc and measuring the amount of liquid I could pour into each one

Its going to be slow on this as I'm busy with work at the moment.

Steve

chopsticks are good..  wooden or plastic ones. , can be done in any position as long as the piston is in the same position for all of them (ie TDC). I would go for the TDC on the compression stroke (both valves closed) as this is easiest to see when it is from cam position etc.

[pug306driver]

just to illiminate this, undo the exhaust at the manifold to pipe joint so exh can "leak", maybe exh is full of water so eng cannot breath, but pp info says air flow is happening.