Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Water in Engine
#1
Hi Guys

Its been a bad day. I feel like a right idiot.

I went through a ford.  I got half way through the 'lake' and the car ground to a halt. The water was about a foot deep. The water was up to the front door lower rubber and I could not get out without wading in it!
Long story short, a farmer in wellies pushed me out (strong as an ox he was).

I tried to start the engine, but it turned just a fraction, the instrument panel lights went dim, and the starter motor just stopped. The starter motor barely moved by the sound of it.
The interior lights, heater blower, wipers, indicators etc work, so I have got good electrics by the look of it.

The AA relayed me home. The AA guy said the engine was 'f**ked as it had water in it. He said that the engine maybe locked up because something has got bent. Water does not compress so I hear what he is saying.
I've just took the air filter out. It is dripping wet. There is evidence of water in the tube beyond the air filter housing.

Have any of you had experience of this situation? Any suggestions where I go from here to further investigate myself.

All suggestions welcome. Jeez, am I pissed off.

Thanks

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#2
Only thing to do is whip the glow plugs out and spin it over to try and get as much water as you can out of it. Then pop them back and and see how it sounds if it will run. These HDi engines dont seem to like the water though. We have had 2 into us at work over winter which have gone through water and both killed the engines.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#3
Must've been higher than the door sills to get into the intake? Confused
Reply
Thanks given by:
#4
Go in at speed and you'd be amazed at how much water can get into the intake, doesn't help that a diesel continues drawing air even when you're off the throttle.

As Frosty says, pull the plugs and spin her over to get any water out, you might be lucky. I've hydrolocked one of these and as far as i know the engine is still going fine 4 years later, it certainly survived another 2 years of abuse from myself and another member on here.
306 HDi Deathtrap - 130bhp / 220lbft
...UPGRADING...



Reply
Thanks given by:
#5
Thank you gentlemen.

Ah, glow plugs, I can do those, I've done them before. I completely forgot about the glow plugs. I was thinking I had to take the injectors out (which I have not done before)!

I was crawling through it, but a lot of water did wash up the low front of the 306.

Fingers crossed, I now have a glimmer of hope, but I won't hold my breath.

I'll let you know the verdict on Friday when I whip the plugs out.

Many thanks again.

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#6
also drain the turbo, water may well be lying in there, also exhaust system, but that can be "emptied" or blown clear, hope its a runner for you.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#7
(09-03-2016, 06:09 PM)Frosty Wrote: Only thing to do is whip the glow plugs out and spin it over to try and get as much water as you can out of it. Then pop them back and and see how it sounds if it will run. These HDi engines dont seem to like the water though. We have had 2 into us at work over winter which have gone through water and both killed the engines.

Done this before on BMW lumps, spark out, turn engine over for 15 seconds, plug back in, repeat on all then start it up.
Supercharged GTi6 Build
S14 Zenki Build
[Image: signature.png]
Reply
Thanks given by:
#8
Well now I have seen this I will definitely be taking puddles more seriously haha. Going down a lane at night I hit a puddle doing about 45. When I say puddle it was basically a flood. Probably about a foot deep. The wave totally submerged the front of the car and went straight up the bonnet and windscreen. Seriously lucky that it never killed my car by the sounds of it then!!
Reply
Thanks given by:
#9
I hit that sort of puddle quite often...and at speed... Hence wondering how such a shallow one caused this lol. Only time I've had water in the intake was on the GTi6 when jetwashing the bay, clearly the intake wasn't overly well sealed, popped the filter cover off and it all ran out lol.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#10
Just unlucky, they're designed so you shouldn't be able to, but get it just wrong and it'll take a good gulp.

How much damage usually depends on the speed you hit it and what speed the engine was doing and how much water went in... If it was spinning fast, the inertia will likely have bent something...

As said, whip glow plugs out, crank, clear inlet of any more water so it doesn't just gulp more and go for a start.. You may find it runs fine, only a few weeks/months later it'll spit a rod as something bent... Just pray really!!
(16-05-2016, 10:45 AM)Toms306 Wrote: Oh I don't care about the stripped threads lol, that's easily solved by hammering the bolt in. Wink
Nanstone GTD5 GT17S - XUD9TE
Volvo V50 D5 R-Design SE Sport - Daily cruise wagon.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#11
Thanks for your support guys. I am in need of more advice.

Remember the engine was locked solid and would not turn over or move the slightest.
I took out the glow plugs. She turned over just on the starter motor. There was no ignition as there was no compression. Water sprayed everywhere, which is a good thing right!
I turned it over for a good 5 minutes and it looks like the bulk of the water is out of the combustion chamber. It is not hydro-locked anymore. The engine sounds ok on the starter, but I won't count my chickens until I hear it firing up and ticking over.

I removed the pipe going into the air box. I removed the air box. I removed the plastic pipe that joins the air box to the stainless steel pipe that I presume goes into the turbo behind the engine.
I shoved a rag down the stainless pipe and it went round the bend a bit. I pulled it out and the rag is soaking. I hear what you are saying about removing the turbo, but that is looking like a big job (or is it?).

Now my question, once I have dried the MAF and air pipes, should I go for ignition, or do you think it is best to spend a day and remove the turbo bits. I have never done that so it is unknown territory for me. What do you think?

Thanks

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#12
Where the pipe connects to the turbo there is a bolt that holds the metal pipe to the turbo inlet. If you take the front right wheel off and jack the car up laying down you can reach the bolt with a spanner. A rachet spanner helps a lot. Undo the bolt and then you will be able to pull the metal pipe away from the turbo inlet just a bit. This should empty that pipe out.

Any thing that has pooled in the bottom of the turbo I can't see you being able to remove really. I suppose if you start the car just don't rev it. The heat from the exhaust side of the turbo maybe enough to evaporate the water that has built up? (More advice needed here, I maybe unaware of something)
Reply
Thanks given by:
#13
(11-03-2016, 03:31 PM)JTaylor2005 Wrote: Where the pipe connects to the turbo there is a bolt that holds the metal pipe to the turbo inlet. If you take the front right wheel off and jack the car up laying down you can reach the bolt with a spanner. A rachet spanner helps a lot. Undo the bolt and then you will be able to pull the metal pipe away from the turbo inlet just a bit. This should empty that pipe out.

Any thing that has pooled in the bottom of the turbo I can't see you being able to remove really. I suppose if you start the car just don't rev it. The heat from the exhaust side of the turbo maybe enough to evaporate the water that has built up? (More advice needed here, I maybe unaware of something)

Ah, that sounds doable. I give it a go right now and get that section of pipe off.

I'll hang fire doing anything else in case (as you say) there is more to be aware of. Speak up guys, please.

Blinding, many thanks.

Steve

Oh. The water was about a foot deep, but it did wash up over the streamlined front and came onto the bonnet a bit ... IN A BIG VOLUME. That I presume was when it was gulped up by the air inlet pipe. The front of the air inlet pipe was definitely submerged for a brief instant. When the car came to a halt the water was up to the door rubber, but I may have gone through some slightly deeper water before that. There was a bit of a dip so the front was pointing down when it went in.

In all these years I have never been warned not to drive in deep water! I think I need to get out more and talk with more of you car guys!

I'm surprised I have not heard any warnings mentioned on the telly, when they are reporting big floods and the like.

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#14
having read that, I think I may knock-up a 'too deep puddle sensor' :/
It goes, it stops (as reqd). Makeup
Hate Housework!
Reply
Thanks given by:
#15
Can't do anything about the tiny amount of water that will remain in the turbo housing, just be a bit cautious when you start it, leave it idling to get up to temperature. The remaining bit of water will dry quickly in the airflow.
306 HDi Deathtrap - 130bhp / 220lbft
...UPGRADING...



Reply
Thanks given by:
#16
(11-03-2016, 05:37 PM)Poodle Wrote: Can't do anything about the tiny amount of water that will remain in the turbo housing, just be a bit cautious when you start it, leave it idling to get up to temperature. The remaining bit of water will dry quickly in the airflow.

Thanks Poodle/JTay

I undid the 3 bolts securing the turbo inlet pipe, and separated it free from the Turbo (good call on that bolt JTay).
No water came out at the Turbo joint.
However, the pipe has got a bit of a dip and a bend in it just behind the cam shaft area, so I think my rag was soaking up the residue left in that area, which does not seem a lot.
Thanks, I won't worry too much about what little maybe in the Turbo housing. I will tread carefully.

I'm just worried that there still may be enough residual water left somewhere in the system, to fill up the combustion chamber again and create a lock.

Now to put it back together. Its getting dark and cold. The things you do!

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#17
Surely the downstroke would've sucked any remaining inlet water into the cylinders when you turned it over without plugs anyway? I can't see it only drawing in air through the plug hole? Should be all dry now I reckon!
Reply
Thanks given by:
#18
just an outline idea,
a simple circuit for 'deep water'


Attached Files Image(s)
   
It goes, it stops (as reqd). Makeup
Hate Housework!
Reply
Thanks given by:
#19
Just remove air filter / housing and clear that out, remove boost pipe from top elbow...crank with the plugs out (5-10 seconds more than enough), replace plugs, crank and start the engine, rev the car up pointing the boost pipe away from the elbow, keep revving until the turbo stops spitting water out...re connect everything and your good to go Smile

One thing worth noting, when your motor it for the first time with plugs back in, listen for an un consistent motoring...if its not consistent you have likely bent a rod, if not, fingers crossed you got away with it...90% of the time engines are fine, however I have also had someone's NAD spit a rod from eating water...and my own DT bend a rod from eating oil (same effect)...

On a second note, if things seem to be good, id generally recommend an oil change also....
| Dyno Power Runs & Steady State Facilities Available, Just Ask Anytime |
| #DervMafia |

[Image: sigi-2.png]
Reply
Thanks given by:
#20
(12-03-2016, 09:02 AM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Just remove air filter / housing and clear that out, remove boost pipe from top elbow...crank with the plugs out (5-10 seconds more than enough), replace plugs, crank and start the engine, rev the car up pointing the boost pipe away from the elbow, keep revving until the turbo stops spitting water out...re connect everything and your good to go Smile

One thing worth noting, when your motor it for the first time with plugs back in, listen for an un consistent motoring...if its not consistent you have likely bent a rod, if not, fingers crossed you got away with it...90% of the time engines are fine, however I have also had someone's NAD spit a rod from eating water...and my own DT bend a rod from eating oil (same effect)...

On a second note, if things seem to be good, id generally recommend an oil change also....

Hi Darren

Bear with me, I'm in unknown territory, and slowly understanding the system. Where is the Boost Pipe? I can't see it on Peugeot Service Box, and have not found it in the Haynes yet.

Thanks

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#21
Boost pipe would be the pipes between the turbo and the inlet manifold carrying pressurised air, aka boost.
Night Blue VW Golf 7 GTD : Bianca 306 Rallye : Mini Cooper D (The Mrs')
[Image: wallye-gtd.JPG?raw=1]
HDi Owner for 200k/9 years
Reply
Thanks given by:
#22
(12-03-2016, 10:13 PM)C2K Wrote: Boost pipe would be the pipes between the turbo and the inlet manifold carrying pressurised air,  aka boost.

Thanks C2K, that make sense. I've looked everywhere and could not find a reference to a HDI boost pipe (only those big pipes that go from the front mounted cooler).

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#23
you wont have standard "boost" pipes on that if its got an FMIC, no 306's ever had them..

undo the lower one from the intercooler and allow it to drain out of that as Darren suggested..

you can also get a hairdryer and blow hot air into the other end of it to evapourate any remaining water from the inlet elbow (on top of the engine going into the cylinder head) to ensure there is no residual..

don't use a paint hot air gun it's to hot and you risk melting things,
Given the choice between Niall and the sheep. I would choose the sheep!
/Toseland
Reply
Thanks given by:
#24
The verdict ......

I put it all back together and turned it over.

It will not fire up ... bummer ... I think it is a write off.[Image: sad.png]

I had a full charge in the battery. The engine turned fairly briskly, but did not seem to turn over fast enough when under compression. At one point , I think I heard a 'rubbing' noise as it was turning over. At this time I am thinking a con rod is bent and the engine is tight. I'm guessing a tight engine will not turn over fast enough for the ecu to allow the engine to go to the combustion phase ? I can't think what else could be preventing combustion?

One last question, when I had the glow plugs out and turned the engine over to expel the water, I removed the connectors on top of the injectors to prevent any firing. Did I do right there?

Thanks guys.

Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#25
try bumping her?
Phase 1 D-Turdo, K14@24 psi, De-cat, meaty backbox, Bosch pump, grinded LDA pin, duel air fed K&N =133.7bhp & 188ft/lbs
Reply
Thanks given by:
#26
Tried turning it by hand to see if it gets tight?

Oh and make sure the fuel cut off didn't get triggered.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#27
It has been known to fry the ecu if you unplug the injectors and try to start it, pretty damn rare though, rare enough for me to still be sceptical of it as a "thing" that supposedly happens. I'd check your fuel cut off and clear any codes and try again.
306 HDi Deathtrap - 130bhp / 220lbft
...UPGRADING...



Reply
Thanks given by:
#28
(14-03-2016, 06:12 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: try bumping her?
Hi matt~

I have no hills where I am, and no one to give assistance for a good old push on the flat. I charged the battery to full capacity and would have thought that that would be adequate, or will a bump start be better?

Steve

(14-03-2016, 06:40 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Tried turning it by hand to see if it gets tight?

Oh and make sure the fuel cut off didn't get triggered.

Hi Tom

I'll get a spanner on the crankshaft pulley tomorrow.

I've only seen a fuel cut off device on an XUD. Is there one on these HDIs?

Thanks

Steve

(14-03-2016, 06:57 PM)Poodle Wrote: It has been known to fry the ecu if you unplug the injectors and try to start it, pretty damn rare though, rare enough for me to still be sceptical of it as a "thing" that supposedly happens. I'd check your fuel cut off and clear any codes and try again.

Hi Poodle

Ah, you mention fuel cut off as well. I can't find that in the Haynes. Thought it was just on the XUD engines. Where is it!

I was thinking the next step would be to buy the PP2000 and see what fault codes there were. I might just do that before writing it off. It will play on my mind if I do not know the exact cause of the non start.

I presume I just buy PP2000 of ebay? Or can you recommend how to go about it without getting ripped off. Thanks.


Steve
Reply
Thanks given by:
#29
The fuel cut off is the red button behind the battery
Reply
Thanks given by:
#30
(12-03-2016, 09:02 AM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Just remove air filter / housing and clear that out, remove boost pipe from top elbow...crank with the plugs out (5-10 seconds more than enough), replace plugs, crank and start the engine, rev the car up pointing the boost pipe away from the elbow, keep revving until the turbo stops spitting water out...re connect everything and your good to go Smile

One thing worth noting, when your motor it for the first time with plugs back in, listen for an un consistent motoring...if its not consistent you have likely bent a rod, if not, fingers crossed you got away with it...90% of the time engines are fine, however I have also had someone's NAD spit a rod from eating water...and my own DT bend a rod from eating oil (same effect)...

On a second note, if things seem to be good, id generally recommend an oil change also....



darren post that video of the car you have to clear out the other day
Reply
Thanks given by:


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)