+- 306oc - Peugeot 306 Owners Club & Forum (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum)
+-- Forum: Engines (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: DW10 HDi section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. (/showthread.php?tid=31959)
Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - mechsman - 20-09-2015
So, I recently bought a second set of hdi injectors and sent them to United Diesel with a request to find higher flowing nozzles.
They got back to me the other day with the news that they have found a nozzle that can flow 40% over the stock nozzle and has a 142 degree firing angle (so better than the 153 amg ones). Obviously they won't tell me what the nozzles come out of, but apparently it's an oem Bosch part on a production engine. I will ask them for the flow numbers on Monday.
Unfortunately the quoted price is £100 ex vat per nozzle. My injectors are also worn so need work, taking the price for mine to £180 per injector, which pretty much kills my chances of affording them.
If I were to look at arranging a group buy, would anybody be interested?
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - bashbarnard - 20-09-2015
What is the standard nozzle angle out of interest?
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - MY95 - 20-09-2015
Nice idea, but thats a Sh#t tonne of money for just injectors!
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - mechsman - 20-09-2015
(20-09-2015, 08:33 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: What is the standard nozzle angle out of interest?
Standard is 143 degrees. These nozzles are 142 so pretty close. Much better than the amg ones people use at 155 degrees.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Ruan - 20-09-2015
RHY/RHZ uses a DSLA142P795.
142 being the cone angle, but sadly that misses off a major bit of information which is the offset angle, the 8v injector doesn't sit upright in the head.. This therefore depends on the rotation of the injector and plane angle which is variable and is not documented...
I can't say for certain, but I'd say they're possibly Alfa JTD nozzles... I'd heard 30% more flow thrown around, but no experience of that...
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Poodle - 21-09-2015
As above, most likely to be some of the 1.9jtd 8v nozzles, think i've got a part number kicking about somewhere. Plane angle isn't actually that far off if memory serves, no idea what the nozzle rotation is though. Got a feeling uberderv may have obtained a set to play with a couple of years back, can't remember...
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - darrenjlobb - 21-09-2015
As said, there are a few nozzles that will work from stock applications in the 8v, but not many due to the odd plane / rotation of injector, although if you can find anything with correct plane and cone angles it would be possible to work with as long as you knew the rotation of the OEM engine it came from and some modifications to the body.
However, if its staying common rail and not going MTDI, sadly this is the price you generally have to pay...As changing common rail nozzles yourself is pretty much a disaster zone, yes you can change them no problem at all (no different to a mech injector) but the problem is there is simply no way to test it, so like on mech injectors I can set the pop pressure with my injector tester, and check the spray is good, in which case the injector is good. But with common rail there are lots of "calibrator" items inside the body of the injector which set things like max needle left / pressure etcetc, all which are critical to get correct or else you will get all 4 injectors dumping in different amounts of fuel. Sadly the equipment you need to measure these precise levels of accuracy are VERY expensive, hence your stuck using the big diesel places who have the gear, and 100-150 per injector is a very typical cost...Normally ends up costing more due to problems with nearly all used injectors...
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - JTaylor2005 - 21-09-2015
Have you lot seen that Dervtech are offering a 40% flow increase set of injectors for these engines now?
Jack
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Jonny81191 - 21-09-2015
(21-09-2015, 02:58 PM)JTaylor2005 Wrote: Have you lot seen that Dervtech are offering a 40% flow increase set of injectors for these engines now?
Jack
So alfa jtd ones?
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - JTaylor2005 - 21-09-2015
Not a clue haha. Just whatever they are offering. They don't put much info out tbf
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Ruan - 21-09-2015
As said, don't quote me on it definitely being Alfa JTD ones, because I don't know that, I'm merely speculating, as said, I'd seen a figure of 30% thrown around anyway....
Can't remember whether that was with the needle lift modification also...
It's their prerogative to not give out information on such things, if I were in the business of doing it, nor would I - end of the day, you knowing what nozzles they are is about as much use as tits on a fish, if you just install them by hand, you can't balance them - you just end up with 4x injectors all moving differing amounts of fuel causing one cylinder running rich, one cylinder running lean, one injector having a slight dribble...
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Uberderv - 21-09-2015
Probably Alfa nozzles, tested by TB205 with good results. You can ask for Firad nozzles which are about £30 each I think.
Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Cho99er5000 - 21-09-2015
I had my injectors full referbed and balanced for £100 each
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - MY95 - 21-09-2015
(21-09-2015, 06:29 PM)Uberderv Wrote: Probably Alfa nozzles, tested by TB205 with good results. You can ask for Firad nozzles which are about £30 each I think.
Any chance you could expand on that? Will interest quite a few people and there is very little info on this on the web. Cheers!
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - bashbarnard - 21-09-2015
Second that. If these are a possibility I could get them tested by friends of mine for me.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Uberderv - 21-09-2015
www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tuning-andamp-upgrades/286125-1-9-8v-jtd-nozzles.html
^^^^^^ Have a gander through that.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - MY95 - 21-09-2015
Interesting, up to 30% more!
Wonder how much work it would take to put the 1.9JTD 150 into a 306!
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Poodle - 22-09-2015
Read the thread Uberderv has linked, it'll explain why not.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - MY95 - 22-09-2015
Read the whole thing before I posted Poodle
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Piggy - 22-09-2015
I know they are a limit...
But there are many other factors that limit a HDi before injectors.
I would ask the OP:
Once you are at a reliable and efficient 180-200bhp... Would you really need more!?
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Uberderv - 22-09-2015
(22-09-2015, 06:05 AM)Piggy Wrote: I know they are a limit...
But there are many other factors that limit a HDi before injectors.
I would ask the OP:
Once you are at a reliable and efficient 180-200bhp... Would you really need more!?
Is 180-200hp reliable and efficient on std nozzles though ? The way I look at it, your pushing things to the limits at that power. Yes its been done, but using higher flowing nozzles brings things back out of the limits. Just because they are fitted doesn't mean you need to push them to the limit too.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Poodle - 22-09-2015
Fair enough, perhaps it's a different thread from the one i remember. Basically 16v injectors have 0 degree plane angle so they're no good.
It's well-known that injectors are the next big restriction on an HDi. Exactly as above, the same principles apply as they do to anything else - running them at their extreme limit will cause higher wear to them and other components, which can and does affect reliability.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - welshpug - 22-09-2015
(22-09-2015, 06:05 AM)Piggy Wrote: Once you are at a reliable and efficient 180-200bhp... Would you really need more!?
says the guy running 218 bhp
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - bashbarnard - 22-09-2015
Idis are different though. Nozzles aren't pushed to the max. Where as hdi they are.
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Piggy - 22-09-2015
(22-09-2015, 12:11 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: Idis are different though. Nozzles aren't pushed to the max. Where as hdi they are.
Yeah, tom I believe is on std injectors at over 250bhp.
(22-09-2015, 11:22 AM)welshpug Wrote:(22-09-2015, 06:05 AM)Piggy Wrote: Once you are at a reliable and efficient 180-200bhp... Would you really need more!?
says the guy running 218 bhp
I'm also considering perhaps the OP isnt aware of what a huge difference double stock on a hdi is. Stg1 is a serious transformation!
RE: Upgraded hdi nozzles with correct firing angle. - Poodle - 22-09-2015
If it's the same mechsman i remember he probably isn't far off needing more, assuming his plans came to fruition.