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+--- Thread: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? (/showthread.php?tid=26266)
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2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Janne L - 25-08-2014
I'm looking into replacing my 307sw 2.0 with something else, and the 407sw 2.2hdi Fap came up as a reasonable replacement, reasonably roomy and decent prices.
But I have zero experience in these engines, what should I be on the lookout for? Particulate filter, cleanable or is a replacement necessary?
Does anyone know how to check if the car is a face-lift ed model? Wikipedia said the 2.2hdi was introduced with the face-lift but I see a bunch of my07 cars for sale with that engine.. Very confusing!
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 25-08-2014
I would buy a d9 406 instead, same engine, much better shape to the boot, its a proper estate not an sw, the 407 tailgate opening is really poor for the cars size, or get a citroen c5 with the same engine.
if the dpf causes issue just get it removed and mapped out, you can also gain a decent 30-40 bhp on a standard engine.
in any case listen out for dmf noises, ticking injectors, boost leaks, excessive snoke and lack of power, nothing too difficult to fix but can add up in cost especially if you dont fix it yourself.
very similar in operation to the dw10ated4, but a longer stroke bigger bore taller engine.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Pebbles167 - 25-08-2014
Top advice there from Welshpug
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Janne L - 25-08-2014
406 is, unfortunately, out of the question due to tax rules on diesel cars made before 2005.
Besides, I have an 05 307, and i want something that is at least not older than my present ride [WHITE SMILING FACE]
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Eeyore - 25-08-2014
my main worry with any new car would be the clutch/fly wheel. expensive to replace and i believe its not something you particularly want to be doing yourself.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - C.A.R. - 25-08-2014
Focus estate? Not a 2.2 but the 136 2.0 TDCi/HDi engine is pretty good.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 25-08-2014
I'd go Volvo before a focus, same platform same engines but better put together and didn't get DPF till later on.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 25-08-2014
^^ Just FYI that's not entirely true, seen P1 platform cars with the BTED4 with a DPF on an 06 plate - DPFs on them came mid way through Euro4. I've seen Focusses with the 2.0 on a 57 plate with no DPF.
The 1.6s had DPFs very early on, but the 2.0s not so much in my experience.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Toms306 - 25-08-2014
Nothing wrong with a DMF, its no different to change than an SMF, just a bit more expensive. Its also easier to drop the gearboxes on newer cars as everything isn't rusty and seized lol. And they'll easily last 120k+ under normal conditions, same time as the clutch starts the fail anyway.
DPF is the bigger worry, especially PSA ones with the Eolys fluid which are only expected to last around 75k miles before being blocked by regen ash which cant be 'cleaned'. Needs replacing then as it's now illegal to just remove them (yes illegal, not just an MOT fail). May be different in Sweden but I'd imagine they're much hotter on emmisions stuff out there tbh.
On the 2.2 it's also a VNT turbo, which come with their own 'sticking' problems if its been driven slowly by old people previously lol.
Also, 2009 is when the Euro 5 regs came out, which meant that almost all diesels in Europe then needed a DPF, there are quite a few smaller cars without one up to then which has surprised me a bit. However the Euro regs wont apply to Sweden so it may differ whether or not the cars there have a DPF with the same engines if that makes sense.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 25-08-2014
For the record, my V50 has done 112k of town driving and my driving - DMF isn't chattery nor is the clutch slipping... So meh - anything past 100k for a clutch I consider a bonus.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 25-08-2014
I didn't think it was a VNT on the 2.2 407 but a twin turbo thing as its the 173 engine.
The 406 was just a bog standard solenoid wastegate as that only got the 136 bhp engine.
either way, if you're after something specifically to use as an estate to replace a 307, 407 wouldn't be my first choice, C5 would be though.
or a petrol BMW, as the diesels suck wotsits.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Toms306 - 25-08-2014
Ah, my bad, you are right, they're not VNT. Been looking at some many cars and engines lately I'm getting them crossed lol.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 25-08-2014
The DW12ATED4 as in the 406/807/406 coupe etc is a GT1549P - it's a Variable Geometry turbo... Not Variable Nozzle - it's the same system as they use in larger frame VGT Holset turbochargers.
Essentially slides a set of Nozzles into the flow of the turbo to restrict the flow and increase gas velocity:
![[Image: Garrett_GT1549P.jpg]](http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/105968797/Garrett_GT1549P.jpg)
Looks like this inside:
![[Image: 464657085_234.jpg]](http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/085/657/464/464657085_234.jpg)
Notice nozzles aren't adjustable in their attitude, only adjustable moving it further outward to stop the gas being accelerated into the turbine wheel.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 25-08-2014
ahhh, wondered what was going on with the weird location of the solenoid.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Toms306 - 25-08-2014
Ah that's interesting, had heard of VGT but didn't know the difference.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Janne L - 25-08-2014
So the fact that every review I've read, has stated that it's a twin turbo setup, is a lie? Kinda suspected it but it's nice to get it confirmed :-)
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 25-08-2014
The 2.2 170 possibly is a twin turbo setup yes - though I think the 2.2 birturbo only came on late cars.
They also put the 2.2 in LR Freelanders/Range Rover Evoques but had a single turbo and 170hp... So could be either.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 25-08-2014
there's only one 2.2 hdi listed on servicebox for the 407.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 25-08-2014
Sure, there's possibly only one....
I think I meant to say, the 2.2 engine only came in very late cars...
I think it's rare since the 2.0 16v then went to 168hp which then made the 170 2.2 defunct.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Janne L - 25-08-2014
Did some research, seems to be the dw12bted4 or 4HT engine that's fitted to my price range of cars.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - C.A.R. - 26-08-2014
(25-08-2014, 12:03 PM)welshpug Wrote: or a petrol BMW, as the diesels suck wotsits.
eek, why do you say that? (potentially looking at BMW 320d...)
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 26-08-2014
Depends which variant, but theres lots of info about on them
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 26-08-2014
Lol yeah most BMW Diesels before about 2007 have real problems, swirl flaps, failing injectors, failing (read: rattly as f*ck) chain tensioners, turbo issues all sorts like that - wouldn't touch unless you don't mind horrifying bills.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - C.A.R. - 27-08-2014
I knew about the swirl flaps and the dodgy oil pickup but it was my understanding that anything 53 plate onwards was safe from these issues?
Injectors appear no worse than any other diesel of that age? With the exception that you can (apparently) replace only the faulty injector rather than needing a whole new set like certain Fords...
Please divulge!
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Kezzieboy - 27-08-2014
Dad's E46 330d shat the turbo and cost a grand to put right. I lol'd. He hasn't had any swirl flap issues though, despite being on about 150k miles and having a remap.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Seb_Ryan - 27-08-2014
The *35s dont tend to suffer turbo problems.. maybe because there is 2? Lol neighbours 320d has had turbo and injectors done, hes had since new in 2003 and its done nearly 180k so isnt that bad tbh
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Piggy - 27-08-2014
Any "new" diesel is going to need turbo and injector rebuilds or replacements or work on them at some point. Its part and parcel of life and wear/tear.
As regards DMF though...it may not be all that more expensive to buy one and replace than a SMF but how often does a SMF fail????? VERY RARE. DmF....pretty damn common.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - welshpug - 27-08-2014
you don't want a SMF on big power diesels, they will lunch the transmission a fair bit quicker than they do already.
DMF's dont fail anywhere near as much as the first generation did 15 years ago.
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - Ruan - 27-08-2014
Yeah definitely...
DMFs are a good thing, just were executed badly to begin with! Without them you'll lunch transmissions, clutch springs etc.
These days they're pretty much fine, it was stuff like the original 110hp HDis, Ford Camchain TDCis and 1.9 PD TDis that gave DMFs a bad name!
RE: 2.2hdi 407 buying tips? - C.A.R. - 27-08-2014
Well, f*ck. Here I was checking Autotrader every bloody night and you lot have gone and ruined my desire for a BMW e46.
Damn you.