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RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - zx_volcane - 29-09-2014
If a separate battery solves it, why not just run it off a 9v battery on a switch, rather than a huge 12v car battery?
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 29-09-2014
(29-09-2014, 07:09 PM)zx_volcane Wrote: If a separate battery solves it, why not just run it off a 9v battery on a switch, rather than a huge 12v car battery?
funnily enough I was considering that!!! But bit worried if it dies while on a journey!Still got that odd interference with the car despite no physical connections
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - zx_volcane - 29-09-2014
carry a spare innit
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - nominous - 29-09-2014
Common earth.
All sensors and the device to a common earthing point which ideally should be on the engine - cos it's what you take readings from.
Plus all sensors etc should take power from a common point.
Be careful that anything you are connecting doesn't have it's casing (if metal duh) earthed to the GND line and chassis at same time.
It dosn't matter if that is a GND wire from the engine, point is that it's common.
If it dont work like that, then 9/10 you aint doing it on one common point.
Ditch the extra battery of course.
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 29-09-2014
All the sensors have no relation to the engine earth. TPS, RPM and map all dont make any physical relation to earth as they are all powered sensors. If that makes sense!
But it all has one earth. Loom and arduino all share a perfect earth to chassis, about 12inches from the arduino box.
Basically as an independent system it works fine. Use the cars power and earth and it goes mental
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - nominous - 29-09-2014
So what method are you using for RPM ? Not the alt then ?
MAP ok, generally they are plastic - occassionaly the mounting tabs has metal rings which are connected to the GND....
Is the TPS on the throttle lever ?
Have you buzzed that to see if the GND on the pot isn't connected to the case ?
It's good practise to use the power and ground from the engine for the ECU or sensors etc generally speaking.
In simplystic terms, it's like hunting for a ground loop with a stereo amp. 1/5th of it is magic.
So run power and GND from the engine.
For the level and frequency that the sensor operates at the differential between the chassis and the engine could be substantial.
Your mileage and that of others may vary.
What are you using for the PSU on the setup ?
Do you have a sinlge drop regulator or multiples ? 7805 ?
Smoothing caps ?
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 29-09-2014
Gt101dc rpm power sensor. TPS could possible be grounding...will check. MAP is free of contact.
I was running power and GND from the engine...thats when I have my issues!!!
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Dum-Dum - 29-09-2014
In car 9v battery charger in the fag lighter then if the battery does die you've always got a spare on charge.
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 29-09-2014
I wana fix it though. Not find a temp bodge
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Dum-Dum - 29-09-2014
Nothing so permanent as a temporary repair.
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 29-09-2014
Philosophy of Dumdum right there
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - nominous - 30-09-2014
(29-09-2014, 08:06 PM)Piggy Wrote: I was running power and GND from the engine...thats when I have my issues!!!
Then put it down to being French, as that's a quite common way of doing it that works wonders on other marques.
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 30-09-2014
Theres not much I havnt tried bud but I do really appreciate you trying to help
Anyone got ideas to clean up the car 12v??
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - nominous - 30-09-2014
Buck & Boost converter (switch mode not a linear reg) and a crap load of smoothing caps ?
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - zx_volcane - 30-09-2014
ideally you need to get a scope on and see what noise is there
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - nominous - 01-10-2014
![[Image: 4101GCET4GL._SX300_.jpg]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4101GCET4GL._SX300_.jpg)
?
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 01-10-2014
Is it weird that I am excited that some service bits arrived?!
Shell HX7 engine oil
Fram slim/short oil filter
Mann fuel fiters
Will update with part numbers later for future ref but very happy that my new fuel filters cost less than the OEM ones...£1.74 each
so I ordered 3! Hope to fit oil cooler when I do the service which I am less excited about
(01-10-2014, 02:20 PM)nominous Wrote:
?
I missed some earlier Qs you had.
Im using two 12v regs to clean up the 12v input then a 7809 for the 9v power to the arduino from one of the 12v and a 7805 for all the sensors which use 5vs.
No smoothing caps that I am aware of. Tbh I dont even know what a smoothing cap is. I assume its not an item of swimwear
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Niall - 01-10-2014
Going to be honest here and say i really CBA to read all of this but i have skimmed it. Am i understanding it right that you are getting it completely fault free when bypassing the 9v reg and just hooking up a 9v battery directly? Also, what is the 9v for? Sensor reference i assume?
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 01-10-2014
9v is for the arduino.
5v is for the sensors.
I get it almost fault free when I simply use a 12v car battery sat behind my seat instead of the normally earth to chassis and live from the fuse box. So still using the regs.
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Niall - 01-10-2014
Ah ok i see. Its not really a proper fix but as a more permanent fix, you could try a noise isolator?
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 02-10-2014
(01-10-2014, 10:09 PM)Niall Wrote: Ah ok i see. Its not really a proper fix but as a more permanent fix, you could try a noise isolator?
Ok...erm...whats one of those?!
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - zx_volcane - 02-10-2014
What size smoothing caps do you have on your regs?
Still think using two regs inline is pointless - what is the working headroom on them?
All the info will be in the spec sheet for whatever IC you're using
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 02-10-2014
(02-10-2014, 07:13 AM)zx_volcane Wrote: What size smoothing caps do you have on your regs?
Still think using two regs inline is pointless - what is the working headroom on them?
All the info will be in the spec sheet for whatever IC you're using
Ok...still dont know what a smoothing cap is.
Dont know what a IC is either
Ruans suggestion to help with the poor electrics in my french shed was a 12v then to 9v and a seperate reg system for the sensors, so 12v then to a 5v. Cleaning up the 12vs as i understood it.
Pointless or not, they are in there!
A quick google tom and I dont have any smoothing caps, just some small capacitors in couple places as per diagrams for arduino vnt I found
My current mess:
[attachment=19320]
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - zx_volcane - 02-10-2014
The best thing you can do is go away and read up on how it all works. Must be some online courses available on the basics.
I'm sure I keep suggesting to go through the Arduino tutorial examples or to build some small example circuits on breadboard.
Get a good understanding of how voltage regs work - how capacitors work ..etc Find out why you need smoothing caps on the input and output stages of a reg, and how the values affect it.
Build up some test circuit of simple things - a voltage reg would be a good start, or a variable voltage reg - test the outputs, stick an led on it or something, get some working knowledge at least.
Rather than starting with a big complex system that you have no idea about, and getting frustrated when you can't fault find.
Why do you think two voltage regs inline is going to be better than one? A voltage regulator either regulates the output voltage or it doesn't.
Have you asked on the Arduino forum? Going to be lots of knowledge people on their and support.
(02-10-2014, 07:30 AM)Piggy Wrote: Ok...still dont know what a smoothing cap is.
Dont know what a IC is either
Ruans suggestion to help with the poor electrics in my french shed was a 12v then to 9v and a seperate reg system for the sensors, so 12v then to a 5v. Cleaning up the 12vs as i understood it.
Pointless or not, they are in there!
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Niall - 02-10-2014
The whole idea of a smoothing capacitor is as the name suggests. It smooths the wave form which you can view from a power source on an occiliscope. A capacitor is just a battery in basic terms. I'm sure you know what a DC wave form looks like so if you imagine when it's dropping, the capacitor which is inline of the power supply will take over and provide power until the do supply is restored. Obviously this happens very very quickly (typically measured in hertz).
If I were you I would look into how transformers work. They are a very simple device in theory and you should have a better idea then of what the electricity is doing at each stage through your transformers and why a smoothing capacitor is required
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - zx_volcane - 02-10-2014
This lad will show you the basics >
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 02-10-2014
Yeah I know the whole wave thing with DC and AC currents.
You have told me a 100 times Tom. Im just busy and stubborn!! And to be honest I know I will suck at it. And i am so close to having this work I guess.
Will try and find time tomorrow evening to start learning.
Never got a reply on the arduino forum.
That guy is metuuuuuool!!!
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - vincent1 - 02-10-2014
ive used some thing like this on projects they seem to work ok you may need two though
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-300W-12A-DC-DC-Buck-Step-Down-7-32V-To-0-8-28V-Converter-Voltage-Regulator-/191322306869?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2c8bb2b935
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 02-10-2014
I checked the arduino forum and got a reply:
"1. If the sensors are all in the engine bay, then I suggest you ground to the Arduino and its voltage regulator to the car ground in the engine bay near the sensors, and nowhere else.
2. Put some filtering on the all the Arduino inputs, such as a 47K resistor in series with each Arduino input pin, and a 0.1uF capacitor between each input pin and Arduino ground."
(02-10-2014, 08:54 AM)vincent1 Wrote: ive used some thing like this on projects they seem to work ok you may need two though
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-300W-12A-DC-DC-Buck-Step-Down-7-32V-To-0-8-28V-Converter-Voltage-Regulator-/191322306869?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2c8bb2b935
Its a bit over kill for my needs bud, but thanks
RE: 2.1GTd...needs an auto electrician - Piggy - 02-10-2014
Appear to have got it all working well. Maping and calibrating this weekend.
And im sorry guys to let you all down...I did try...but I got beat by a Ferrari 430.
I had him on the b road, then we turned onto an A road. And he was gooooone